5 ms·

>"This is an engineering position, honey. Why don't you apply to the secretary pool." Still heard in 2014. Mad Men reruns don't count, sorry.

astrodust 12y ago
Don't think that the 1950s isn't alive and well at some levels of management.
- pervycreeper 12y ago
  If you have any evidence for this claim, feel free to share.
  - CJefferson 12y ago
    What kind of evidence would you like? I have first hand experience of sexism levelled at various female colleagues and students of mine in computer science academia. I don't feel the particular urge to write out their stories in depth here, as you can find such stories everywhere, but they certainly occur
    - pervycreeper 12y ago
      >What kind of evidence would you like? Repeatedly verified statistics from good samples gathered as a result of experiments with controls. >I have first hand experience of sexism levelled at various female colleagues and students of mine in computer science academia. There is a tendency for certain personality types to lump every petty slight and personal disappointment together under "sexism", without any sort of critical reflection. The original question requiring evidence was regarding hiring discrimination in game studios. I am not aware of any game studio which even has a "secretary pool".
      - dragonwriter 12y ago
        > I am not aware of any game studio which even has a "secretary pool". There doesn't have to be an actual secretary pool available for a manager to make a dismissive comment to a female engineering applicant that that's where they should instead be applying. Just like Hell doesn't need to exist -- either in reality or even in the speaker's belief -- for someone to dismiss someone with "go to Hell".
      - astrodust 12y ago
        "I just said she had nice tits. How is that sexism?" I'm sure that's just a "petty slight" and "personal disappointment." Sexism comes in many flavours, from overt to thousands of little attacks that don't stop coming. Sometimes you just need to put things in perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4UWxlVvT1A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4UWxlVvT1A
      - CJefferson 12y ago
        > Repeatedly verified statistics from good samples gathered as a result of experiments with controls. Many parts of sexism are day-to-day personal interactions, those kind of things are hard to measure. > There is a tendency for certain personality types to lump every petty slight and personal disappointment together under "sexism", without any sort of critical reflection. I'm going to need some repeatedly verified statistics from good samples gathered as a result of experiments with controls for that claim.
- Crito 12y ago
  All else aside, do "secretary pools" even still exist? At the very least I've never come across any at any of the companies I've worked for. I am near certain they do not exist at my current company; I've interacted with "executive support teams" (not called that, each individual on those 'teams' has their own job title and role) on several occasions and none were what I would call a "secretary pool".
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > All else aside, do "secretary pools" even still exist? Mostly, pools of clerical support staff have been both subject to reduced demand and outsourcing so that capacity is provided at-need from temporary/staffing services (though I've encountered some places -- specifically universities -- that have their own temporary employment pools that include, but are not limited to, clerical staff.)

astrodust 12y ago

Don't think that the 1950s isn't alive and well at some levels of management.

pervycreeper 12y ago
If you have any evidence for this claim, feel free to share.
- CJefferson 12y ago
  What kind of evidence would you like? I have first hand experience of sexism levelled at various female colleagues and students of mine in computer science academia. I don't feel the particular urge to write out their stories in depth here, as you can find such stories everywhere, but they certainly occur
  - pervycreeper 12y ago
    >What kind of evidence would you like? Repeatedly verified statistics from good samples gathered as a result of experiments with controls. >I have first hand experience of sexism levelled at various female colleagues and students of mine in computer science academia. There is a tendency for certain personality types to lump every petty slight and personal disappointment together under "sexism", without any sort of critical reflection. The original question requiring evidence was regarding hiring discrimination in game studios. I am not aware of any game studio which even has a "secretary pool".
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      > I am not aware of any game studio which even has a "secretary pool". There doesn't have to be an actual secretary pool available for a manager to make a dismissive comment to a female engineering applicant that that's where they should instead be applying. Just like Hell doesn't need to exist -- either in reality or even in the speaker's belief -- for someone to dismiss someone with "go to Hell".
    - astrodust 12y ago
      "I just said she had nice tits. How is that sexism?" I'm sure that's just a "petty slight" and "personal disappointment." Sexism comes in many flavours, from overt to thousands of little attacks that don't stop coming. Sometimes you just need to put things in perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4UWxlVvT1A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4UWxlVvT1A
    - CJefferson 12y ago
      > Repeatedly verified statistics from good samples gathered as a result of experiments with controls. Many parts of sexism are day-to-day personal interactions, those kind of things are hard to measure. > There is a tendency for certain personality types to lump every petty slight and personal disappointment together under "sexism", without any sort of critical reflection. I'm going to need some repeatedly verified statistics from good samples gathered as a result of experiments with controls for that claim.
Crito 12y ago
All else aside, do "secretary pools" even still exist? At the very least I've never come across any at any of the companies I've worked for. I am near certain they do not exist at my current company; I've interacted with "executive support teams" (not called that, each individual on those 'teams' has their own job title and role) on several occasions and none were what I would call a "secretary pool".
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > All else aside, do "secretary pools" even still exist? Mostly, pools of clerical support staff have been both subject to reduced demand and outsourcing so that capacity is provided at-need from temporary/staffing services (though I've encountered some places -- specifically universities -- that have their own temporary employment pools that include, but are not limited to, clerical staff.)