3 ms·

Except systemd isn't monolithic at all. It's 70 bits under one umbrella project, and you only need three of them to replace init. But because it can do somethin

by evol262 12y ago

Except systemd isn't monolithic at all. It's 70 bits under one umbrella project, and you only need three of them to replace init. But because it can do something doesn't mean it does that thing out of the box or even in the default configuration. Even on Fedora (or CoreOS), where systemd has the most uptake. Why is it that every systemd critic doesn't know what systemd is or does?

vezzy-fnord 12y ago
Monolithic and modular aren't mutually exclusive.
- evol262 12y ago
  Conflating the aims of everything underneath the systemd umbrella is misleading regardless of whether you think monolithic and modular aren't mutually exclusive (and hey! systemd isn't monolithic or modular -- the additional bits run separately, they don't plug into systemd), akin to lumping everything in coreutils under the same "coreutils is trying to take over Linux!" argument.
  - viraptor 12y ago
    > the additional bits run separately, they don't plug into systemd What's the reason behind ubuntu running its own stub for logind instead of systemd-login? And how would you run systemd-journal without systemd? As far as I'm aware this is not possible and the internet doesn't seem to know anything about running them standalone.
ddalex 12y ago
So, please tell me how can I use logind without bringing systemd as a PID 1 process. Or how do I stdin/stdout interface (the basic interface in UNIX, where everything is a file) to the new awesome DNS resolver without having to bring up D-Bus ? Systemd is like a bait-and-switch virus. If you want any piece of it, you have to take it all. It spreads and infects/replaces any other competing piece of software. All seventy bits have tight hierarchical coupling, and while you can run the top of heap independently, you can't run the utilities without bringing in the whole mess. Systemd is valued by those who don't understand the quality of having independent programs that talk via standardized human-readable interfaces.

by evol262 12y ago

vezzy-fnord 12y ago

Monolithic and modular aren't mutually exclusive.

evol262 12y ago
Conflating the aims of everything underneath the systemd umbrella is misleading regardless of whether you think monolithic and modular aren't mutually exclusive (and hey! systemd isn't monolithic or modular -- the additional bits run separately, they don't plug into systemd), akin to lumping everything in coreutils under the same "coreutils is trying to take over Linux!" argument.
- viraptor 12y ago
  > the additional bits run separately, they don't plug into systemd What's the reason behind ubuntu running its own stub for logind instead of systemd-login? And how would you run systemd-journal without systemd? As far as I'm aware this is not possible and the internet doesn't seem to know anything about running them standalone.

ddalex 12y ago

So, please tell me how can I use logind without bringing systemd as a PID 1 process. Or how do I stdin/stdout interface (the basic interface in UNIX, where everything is a file) to the new awesome DNS resolver without having to bring up D-Bus ? Systemd is like a bait-and-switch virus. If you want any piece of it, you have to take it all. It spreads and infects/replaces any other competing piece of software. All seventy bits have tight hierarchical coupling, and while you can run the top of heap independently, you can't run the utilities without bringing in the whole mess. Systemd is valued by those who don't understand the quality of having independent programs that talk via standardized human-readable interfaces.