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Unfortunately, and ironically, the author of this article is laboring under a misconception as to why "video game critics" ought to feel embarrassed. "Game jou

Unfortunately, and ironically, the author of this article is laboring under a misconception as to why "video game critics" ought to feel embarrassed. "Game journalists" are a notoriously corrupt and incestuous group who are currently cynically propping up "gender diversity in games" as an issue to use as a cudgel in order to generate more pageviews for their work and to further their own careers. The recent Zoe Quinn debacle is a perfect illustration of this dynamic. There are a number of specific problems with this article, to name a few: an undercurrent of hatred of masculinity and men, and a persistent association between them and negative traits such as violence ("non-phallic FPS", wtf?), mentioning his personal interest in the issue because he has a daughter as though that would bolster his argument rather than undermine it, and some gender revisionism with regard to the creator of M.U.L.E. (which one may object to on purely philosophical grounds). To list them all, however would involve more text than was present in TFA. If anyone needs to "do better" regarding gender representation, then surely it is not the people who make hiring decisions (who already add bias to favor women over men), but the people who write about these issues in such lazy, thought stifling, and intellectually dishonest ways.

astrodust 12y ago
"...people who make hiring decisions...already add bias to favor women over men..." In some cases, sure, but in many? "This is an engineering position, honey. Why don't you apply to the secretary pool." Still heard in 2014.
- pervycreeper 12y ago
  >"This is an engineering position, honey. Why don't you apply to the secretary pool." Still heard in 2014. Mad Men reruns don't count, sorry.
  - astrodust 12y ago
    Don't think that the 1950s isn't alive and well at some levels of management.
    - pervycreeper 12y ago
      If you have any evidence for this claim, feel free to share.
      - CJefferson 12y ago
        What kind of evidence would you like? I have first hand experience of sexism levelled at various female colleagues and students of mine in computer science academia. I don't feel the particular urge to write out their stories in depth here, as you can find such stories everywhere, but they certainly occur
        pervycreeper 12y ago
        >What kind of evidence would you like? Repeatedly verified statistics from good samples gathered as a result of experiments with controls. >I have first hand experience of sexism levelled at various female colleagues and students of mine in computer science academia. There is a tendency for certain personality types to lump every petty slight and personal disappointment together under "sexism", without any sort of critical reflection. The original question requiring evidence was regarding hiring discrimination in game studios. I am not aware of any game studio which even has a "secretary pool".
        dragonwriter 12y ago
        > I am not aware of any game studio which even has a "secretary pool". There doesn't have to be an actual secretary pool available for a manager to make a dismissive comment to a female engineering applicant that that's where they should instead be applying. Just like Hell doesn't need to exist -- either in reality or even in the speaker's belief -- for someone to dismiss someone with "go to Hell".
        astrodust 12y ago
        "I just said she had nice tits. How is that sexism?" I'm sure that's just a "petty slight" and "personal disappointment." Sexism comes in many flavours, from overt to thousands of little attacks that don't stop coming. Sometimes you just need to put things in perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4UWxlVvT1A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4UWxlVvT1A
A_COMPUTER 12y ago
I noticed the comment about M.U.L.E. as well, that was a masterstroke of Stalinist revisionism. I can't help but wonder about the timing of the article either, but I'm happy to evaluate it on its own merits. Recognition of women in the history of gaming is a welcome topic even without hidden agendas and I'm happy to read them, though I would have preferred more substance than this one. Is Roberta Williams underappreciated? She is pretty famous, but I don't think she's famous enough for the influence she has exerted on video games. (As a side note, consider editing your comment to remove references to The One Who Must Not Be Named.)
- pervycreeper 12y ago
  >(As a side note, consider editing your comment to remove references to the third rail.) Not sure what you mean by that. Also, to add to your examples of omitted names, Jane Jensen is responsible for some top notch games I enjoyed back in the day.
untog 12y ago
surely it is not the people who make hiring decisions (who already add bias to favor women over men) That's not true, though. As much as people like to shout about political correctness gone mad, I'm yet to see any actual evidence of a bias towards women in hiring. But then, I am debating this with someone who has the username 'pervycreeper', so I'm not entirely sure if I'm being trolled or not.
- pervycreeper 12y ago
  >I'm yet to see any actual evidence of a bias towards women in hiring. Anecdotes aside, it is the official policy of most companies, usually under the Orwellian title "non-discrimination policy" or "diversity policy" or some such. This is before we factor in any personal crusades that the hiring officers may or may not be engaging in. >I am debating this reaching.
- catinahat 12y ago
  Well, there is this: > The main challenge comes when we actually do get a female candidate. We don’t discard a single one on resume. We see all of them. We discard about 80% of guys on resume. But even so, we get to see 4 guys to 1 girl or so. In the interviews, we help the girls shine, because we actually want to hire them, but then, one of the other 4 guys shows just an amazing performance, for whatever reason, truly impressive, like he has done many more things than the girl (and than the other candidates), can show more amazing code, personal projects, etc. And we think: “If the girl was a guy, she would not be on the race with this guy, just like the other male candidates are totally discarded now”. Should we let this amazing coding guy go? It’s not easy to find amazing coders either, you know? source: https://startupsanonymous.com/story/hiring-girls-difficult-work-space/ https://startupsanonymous.com/story/hiring-girls-difficult-w... And it makes sense that someone would vent such things anonymously or not at all, considering the skewering they'd get from the media if they even suggested anything of the sort publicly. As someone who's experienced teaching programming classes for girls, I can wholeheartedly say that trying to recruit candidates who are actually interested in the area is quite difficult. The program I worked for eventually had to move away from being a 'programming' course, to more of a 'digital arts' course just so that we'd get enough applicants to justify continuing it. And this is in the bay area, the tech/liberal capital of the country. So I can totally see this happening in the workplace too.

astrodust 12y ago

"...people who make hiring decisions...already add bias to favor women over men..." In some cases, sure, but in many? "This is an engineering position, honey. Why don't you apply to the secretary pool." Still heard in 2014.

pervycreeper 12y ago
>"This is an engineering position, honey. Why don't you apply to the secretary pool." Still heard in 2014. Mad Men reruns don't count, sorry.
- astrodust 12y ago
  Don't think that the 1950s isn't alive and well at some levels of management.
  - pervycreeper 12y ago
    If you have any evidence for this claim, feel free to share.
    - CJefferson 12y ago
      What kind of evidence would you like? I have first hand experience of sexism levelled at various female colleagues and students of mine in computer science academia. I don't feel the particular urge to write out their stories in depth here, as you can find such stories everywhere, but they certainly occur
      - pervycreeper 12y ago
        >What kind of evidence would you like? Repeatedly verified statistics from good samples gathered as a result of experiments with controls. >I have first hand experience of sexism levelled at various female colleagues and students of mine in computer science academia. There is a tendency for certain personality types to lump every petty slight and personal disappointment together under "sexism", without any sort of critical reflection. The original question requiring evidence was regarding hiring discrimination in game studios. I am not aware of any game studio which even has a "secretary pool".
        dragonwriter 12y ago
        > I am not aware of any game studio which even has a "secretary pool". There doesn't have to be an actual secretary pool available for a manager to make a dismissive comment to a female engineering applicant that that's where they should instead be applying. Just like Hell doesn't need to exist -- either in reality or even in the speaker's belief -- for someone to dismiss someone with "go to Hell".
        astrodust 12y ago
        "I just said she had nice tits. How is that sexism?" I'm sure that's just a "petty slight" and "personal disappointment." Sexism comes in many flavours, from overt to thousands of little attacks that don't stop coming. Sometimes you just need to put things in perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4UWxlVvT1A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4UWxlVvT1A

A_COMPUTER 12y ago

I noticed the comment about M.U.L.E. as well, that was a masterstroke of Stalinist revisionism. I can't help but wonder about the timing of the article either, but I'm happy to evaluate it on its own merits. Recognition of women in the history of gaming is a welcome topic even without hidden agendas and I'm happy to read them, though I would have preferred more substance than this one. Is Roberta Williams underappreciated? She is pretty famous, but I don't think she's famous enough for the influence she has exerted on video games. (As a side note, consider editing your comment to remove references to The One Who Must Not Be Named.)

pervycreeper 12y ago
>(As a side note, consider editing your comment to remove references to the third rail.) Not sure what you mean by that. Also, to add to your examples of omitted names, Jane Jensen is responsible for some top notch games I enjoyed back in the day.

untog 12y ago

surely it is not the people who make hiring decisions (who already add bias to favor women over men) That's not true, though. As much as people like to shout about political correctness gone mad, I'm yet to see any actual evidence of a bias towards women in hiring. But then, I am debating this with someone who has the username 'pervycreeper', so I'm not entirely sure if I'm being trolled or not.

pervycreeper 12y ago
>I'm yet to see any actual evidence of a bias towards women in hiring. Anecdotes aside, it is the official policy of most companies, usually under the Orwellian title "non-discrimination policy" or "diversity policy" or some such. This is before we factor in any personal crusades that the hiring officers may or may not be engaging in. >I am debating this reaching.
catinahat 12y ago
Well, there is this: > The main challenge comes when we actually do get a female candidate. We don’t discard a single one on resume. We see all of them. We discard about 80% of guys on resume. But even so, we get to see 4 guys to 1 girl or so. In the interviews, we help the girls shine, because we actually want to hire them, but then, one of the other 4 guys shows just an amazing performance, for whatever reason, truly impressive, like he has done many more things than the girl (and than the other candidates), can show more amazing code, personal projects, etc. And we think: “If the girl was a guy, she would not be on the race with this guy, just like the other male candidates are totally discarded now”. Should we let this amazing coding guy go? It’s not easy to find amazing coders either, you know? source: https://startupsanonymous.com/story/hiring-girls-difficult-work-space/ https://startupsanonymous.com/story/hiring-girls-difficult-w... And it makes sense that someone would vent such things anonymously or not at all, considering the skewering they'd get from the media if they even suggested anything of the sort publicly. As someone who's experienced teaching programming classes for girls, I can wholeheartedly say that trying to recruit candidates who are actually interested in the area is quite difficult. The program I worked for eventually had to move away from being a 'programming' course, to more of a 'digital arts' course just so that we'd get enough applicants to justify continuing it. And this is in the bay area, the tech/liberal capital of the country. So I can totally see this happening in the workplace too.