6 ms·

Comcast training materials require a "sell" phase, even in support calls

35 points by hashx 12y ago

joekrill 12y ago
I'm not sure you could have ever called Comcast support and not been aware of this. It's quite obvious. And I'm not entirely sure it's even all that interesting. Plenty of companies do this sort of thing. I've had a credit card company pressure me to buy some additional protection services when I called to activate my card. Just the other day I was chatting with an Adobe support person because I had a question about licensing, and they were absolutely incessant about getting me to buy something right then and there. I don't think this is really some scandalous thing that they're doing. Don't get me wrong -- Comcast is a pretty horrible company. But I just don't see this as being some outrageously over-the-top thing they are guilty of.
- mikeash 12y ago
  It all depends on the details. Bringing up possible additional services as part of a support call is fine. If done well, it can be a good thing for both sides. Maybe you actually do need additional services, after all. However, it needs to be brief, to the point, and they need to immediately take "no" for an answer. If Comcast is excessively pushy and isn't actually trying to help you by getting you additional services you actually want, that would be bad. The article doesn't contain enough detail to know which category it falls into.
  - bitJericho 12y ago
    Spoken like a guy who's never had to sell a product in order to eat :D I have no doubt Comcast takes it over the top, but the training materials I read seemed pretty decent.
    - Natsu 12y ago
      Good point. Hasn't everyone here had at least one part-time job where they made you do upselling?
      - mikeash 12y ago
        Nope! He's right, I never have. I can't blame the techs for responding to the incentives given, of course. I can blame the company for giving them bad incentives, though. The fundamental contradiction here is that what succeeds at selling in the short term isn't necessarily what succeeds at selling in the long term. What's best for the company is usually satisfied customers who get the services they need and no more. What's best for the sales guy's monthly numbers may be customers who have been convinced to buy way more than they need and will probably eventually get fed up and leave. Companies that tell their people to sell will probably produce an obnoxious environment. Companies that tell their people to satisfy the customer, including selling them stuff they want or need, will probably be nice to interact with.
        bitJericho 12y ago
        Indeed. Just to kind of give you some insight. Everybody says no at first. Everybody... Unless you called up the salesguy and said "Hey I wanna buy..." then you're almost certainly going to say no up front. The real salesman deftly dodges that objection and starts selling. The salesman (even if it's just the owner) is one of the most important roles in a company, without a sale you may have a great product but you will have no income.
        Natsu 12y ago
        My experience was in selling ice cream. I did better than anyone else simply by trying to anticipate what people would like and offering them that. I never tried to push something onto someone who did not want it and when a customer knew exactly what they wanted, I let them have exactly that. All selling was via suggestion - "X would go well with that ice cream" or something akin to this. I won every award for upselling until they asked me to bow out so someone else could win :) (I didn't mind because I wasn't really interested in the movie tickets you'd win for this in the first place.)
  - Natsu 12y ago
    It's very pushy and obnoxious, but it's also well known, so I agree that this is quite a non-story as far as that goes. My worst experience with an ISP, though, is Megapath. They used to be Speakeasy which had absolutely incredible techs once upon a time. Once bought out, it was slowly ruined. When trying to cancel, they "lost" my cancellation and the cancel web form (the only way they accepted cancellations) mysteriously failed to work until I was on the phone with a supervisor. Only the fact that the expiration date on my card had changed gave me enough leverage to finally force them to cancel, as I pointed out that I would not authorize any charges until I had absolute confirmation that I was cancelled.
    - mikeash 12y ago
      Note that a company can't dictate the way in which you communicate with them, although they might pretend to. Send them a certified letter saying you're canceling their service. If they charge you after that, it's fraudulent. Since you sent it certified, you have proof. If they don't listen to that (which they probably will), let your card company to reverse the charges, or take them to court, or whatever. Not that this helps you with your old ISP, but if it comes up again....
      - Natsu 12y ago
        Yeah, looking back I should have kept better documentation and they knew to call me on it, so I used the threat of not letting them charge me (as the card's expiration had changed) to get out. If I knew to expect shenanigans like that, I would have played it differently, but they had always been good to me prior to that, so it blindsided me. I was only leaving because their DSL offering was no longer remotely competitive and I had already kept it longer than made sense. They simply didn't have a product to offer me at that point.
- jtbigwoo 12y ago
  As it's spelled out, I'm not sure I see the problem, either. When I cancelled with Comcast a few years ago, the woman spent a couple minutes inquiring about my issues and offering to take another shot at fixing them. I didn't think that she was being unreasonable. I get more annoyed when the tellers at my bank try to get me to "talk to a banker" every time I stop by. (I'm already in your bank, surrounded by your bankers. Why would I need to be reminded that I could talk to one?) What I'd like to see from comcast is how they've structured their evaluation metrics and rewards. I suspect that some clever call center folks are artificially inflating their numbers by simply never allowing a customer to cancel.
- richardlblair 12y ago
  Yea, this isn't outrageous, and for some companies it is seen as trying to help the customer. If you are calling to complain about something, and the customer service agent attempts to sell you on a new product you have never heard of is that such a big deal? As long as they are respectful when you say you're not interested there is absolutely no harm in offering people your services. In all actuality, it's a good thing. Keeps you competitive, growing, and with the right attitude your customers should appreciate it.
  - richardlblair 12y ago
    Furthermore, as per their manual they aren't suppose to offer you anything until your issues have been resolved.
- zeidrich 12y ago
  I do think that in certain circumstances you should be able to communicate instructions to them clearly. If their service is faulty, or if you wish to make a change to service they shouldn't be able to try to sell to you, at least until you have completed your request. For instance, if you want to terminate service, you should be able to notify them that you want to terminate service, they should have to process that request, and then they could try and sweeten the deal. But it should be to the point where you can call them, tell them you are cancelling, and then hang up, and have the service canceled. Similarly with technical issues. You should be able to explain your technical issue, receive support, get some kind of action for resolution, and then get the sales speech. If they are contracted to provide a service, they should have to provide that service before they can sell to you. Instead of trying to upsell you before they dispatch a technician, they could try to upsell you after they dispatch the technician. Instead of trying to upsell you instead of solving your problem, they should upsell you after they solve your problem. I think that should be general rules for consumer relations. It's common, but it's terrible that it's common. If you want to cancel your service you shouldn't be beholden to continue paying because the company filibusters you when you try to cancel. The consumer needs to have a way to exercise their right to terminate the arrangement, and a way to request resolution of a service issue that is not prevented or hindered by a company that would rather not have to fulfill their obligations without making a buck.
exhilaration 12y ago
Very much worth reading for the magic phrase that will stop the upselling: There are a few things customers can do, per the document, to avoid the sales plays: one of them is to flat-out instruct the agent to not attempt to sell you services. "Customer volunteers a 'Don’t sell to me' statement" is explicitly listed under the section titled "Transition to Offer is Not Applicable in the Following Scenarios."
dchuk 12y ago
I'm assuming AT&T has this exact same protocol, because a few weeks ago I called them to get my modem fixed because our internet was down for a day and after talking for 45 minutes and assuring them that yes, I have reset the damn modem, the customer service person tried to sell me more channels on my TV service. Which was hilarious because I don't have TV service with them anymore, only internet. I let him know that it's not appropriate to try and upsell someone on a support call, when the customer's current services aren't even working, much less trying to sell them an upgrade on something the customer doesn't have in the first place. Pretty amazing how well they set their reps up for failure. A little bit of training could go a long way, but I guess what's the incentive if most customers are basically locked into specific service providers depending on their address.
- misingnoglic 12y ago
  Once I called AT&T for a support issue and they showed me how I could save money on my bill and get more data by switching to a new family plan, that was nice :)
Klinky 12y ago
The things most companies fail at when it comes to customer service are: - Effectively training employees to fully understand the product they are supporting. - Enabling communication channels between departments that lead to timely resolutions. Often you're talking to someone who doesn't know how to fix your problem, isn't sure why things are messed up, has to use a bunch of internal tools that only partially work, may have to communicate with other departments who might as well be black holes and then has to halfheartedly sell you products unrelated to your call. Companies should be using metrics to help guide decisions, but all too often companies are working for metrics instead of having the metrics data work for them them. Instead of diving deeper into the overall customer experience to figure out if they're even measuring the right things, companies often focus success on driving a narrow spectrum of metrics ever higher, at the cost of everything else.
chadgeidel 12y ago
I worked tech support at Gateway (computers) for a short time in the 2001 timeframe. I quit when they based our bonuses on selling upgraded equipment to customers. Worst part? Most techs would lie and tell the customer their blue screen/crashing problems were because they didn't have enough memory (or similar). Tech gets bonus for selling, I have to install the memory and troubleshoot and fix the actual problem, and I get dinged... Comments to management of course went into the recycle bin.
rdl 12y ago
I hate services which require a phone call or other work to unsubscribe, beyond other changes. There is some argument for higher level security validation for certain service changes, but it shouldn't be done for revenue protection reasons. (I tend to let American Express cancel services for me if the site makes it very difficult.)
taber 12y ago
My roommate was recently employed (he quit) at a Comcast branch south of San Francisco. His responsibilities included helping customers with their technical issues, but the only metric of his success was his ratio of sales to customers seen. As a result, he was ranked lower than other employees who saw less clients, solved less problems, but had more sales. I can't think of a better way to discourage customer support and encourage up-selling.

35 points by hashx 12y ago

I'm not sure you could have ever called Comcast support and not been aware of this. It's quite obvious. And I'm not entirely sure it's even all that interesting. Plenty of companies do this sort of thing. I've had a credit card company pressure me to buy some additional protection services when I called to activate my card. Just the other day I was chatting with an Adobe support person because I had a question about licensing, and they were absolutely incessant about getting me to buy something right then and there. I don't think this is really some scandalous thing that they're doing. Don't get me wrong -- Comcast is a pretty horrible company. But I just don't see this as being some outrageously over-the-top thing they are guilty of.

mikeash 12y ago
It all depends on the details. Bringing up possible additional services as part of a support call is fine. If done well, it can be a good thing for both sides. Maybe you actually do need additional services, after all. However, it needs to be brief, to the point, and they need to immediately take "no" for an answer. If Comcast is excessively pushy and isn't actually trying to help you by getting you additional services you actually want, that would be bad. The article doesn't contain enough detail to know which category it falls into.
- bitJericho 12y ago
  Spoken like a guy who's never had to sell a product in order to eat :D I have no doubt Comcast takes it over the top, but the training materials I read seemed pretty decent.
  - Natsu 12y ago
    Good point. Hasn't everyone here had at least one part-time job where they made you do upselling?
    - mikeash 12y ago
      Nope! He's right, I never have. I can't blame the techs for responding to the incentives given, of course. I can blame the company for giving them bad incentives, though. The fundamental contradiction here is that what succeeds at selling in the short term isn't necessarily what succeeds at selling in the long term. What's best for the company is usually satisfied customers who get the services they need and no more. What's best for the sales guy's monthly numbers may be customers who have been convinced to buy way more than they need and will probably eventually get fed up and leave. Companies that tell their people to sell will probably produce an obnoxious environment. Companies that tell their people to satisfy the customer, including selling them stuff they want or need, will probably be nice to interact with.
      - bitJericho 12y ago
        Indeed. Just to kind of give you some insight. Everybody says no at first. Everybody... Unless you called up the salesguy and said "Hey I wanna buy..." then you're almost certainly going to say no up front. The real salesman deftly dodges that objection and starts selling. The salesman (even if it's just the owner) is one of the most important roles in a company, without a sale you may have a great product but you will have no income.
      - Natsu 12y ago
        My experience was in selling ice cream. I did better than anyone else simply by trying to anticipate what people would like and offering them that. I never tried to push something onto someone who did not want it and when a customer knew exactly what they wanted, I let them have exactly that. All selling was via suggestion - "X would go well with that ice cream" or something akin to this. I won every award for upselling until they asked me to bow out so someone else could win :) (I didn't mind because I wasn't really interested in the movie tickets you'd win for this in the first place.)
- Natsu 12y ago
  It's very pushy and obnoxious, but it's also well known, so I agree that this is quite a non-story as far as that goes. My worst experience with an ISP, though, is Megapath. They used to be Speakeasy which had absolutely incredible techs once upon a time. Once bought out, it was slowly ruined. When trying to cancel, they "lost" my cancellation and the cancel web form (the only way they accepted cancellations) mysteriously failed to work until I was on the phone with a supervisor. Only the fact that the expiration date on my card had changed gave me enough leverage to finally force them to cancel, as I pointed out that I would not authorize any charges until I had absolute confirmation that I was cancelled.
  - mikeash 12y ago
    Note that a company can't dictate the way in which you communicate with them, although they might pretend to. Send them a certified letter saying you're canceling their service. If they charge you after that, it's fraudulent. Since you sent it certified, you have proof. If they don't listen to that (which they probably will), let your card company to reverse the charges, or take them to court, or whatever. Not that this helps you with your old ISP, but if it comes up again....
    - Natsu 12y ago
      Yeah, looking back I should have kept better documentation and they knew to call me on it, so I used the threat of not letting them charge me (as the card's expiration had changed) to get out. If I knew to expect shenanigans like that, I would have played it differently, but they had always been good to me prior to that, so it blindsided me. I was only leaving because their DSL offering was no longer remotely competitive and I had already kept it longer than made sense. They simply didn't have a product to offer me at that point.
jtbigwoo 12y ago
As it's spelled out, I'm not sure I see the problem, either. When I cancelled with Comcast a few years ago, the woman spent a couple minutes inquiring about my issues and offering to take another shot at fixing them. I didn't think that she was being unreasonable. I get more annoyed when the tellers at my bank try to get me to "talk to a banker" every time I stop by. (I'm already in your bank, surrounded by your bankers. Why would I need to be reminded that I could talk to one?) What I'd like to see from comcast is how they've structured their evaluation metrics and rewards. I suspect that some clever call center folks are artificially inflating their numbers by simply never allowing a customer to cancel.
richardlblair 12y ago
Yea, this isn't outrageous, and for some companies it is seen as trying to help the customer. If you are calling to complain about something, and the customer service agent attempts to sell you on a new product you have never heard of is that such a big deal? As long as they are respectful when you say you're not interested there is absolutely no harm in offering people your services. In all actuality, it's a good thing. Keeps you competitive, growing, and with the right attitude your customers should appreciate it.
- richardlblair 12y ago
  Furthermore, as per their manual they aren't suppose to offer you anything until your issues have been resolved.
zeidrich 12y ago
I do think that in certain circumstances you should be able to communicate instructions to them clearly. If their service is faulty, or if you wish to make a change to service they shouldn't be able to try to sell to you, at least until you have completed your request. For instance, if you want to terminate service, you should be able to notify them that you want to terminate service, they should have to process that request, and then they could try and sweeten the deal. But it should be to the point where you can call them, tell them you are cancelling, and then hang up, and have the service canceled. Similarly with technical issues. You should be able to explain your technical issue, receive support, get some kind of action for resolution, and then get the sales speech. If they are contracted to provide a service, they should have to provide that service before they can sell to you. Instead of trying to upsell you before they dispatch a technician, they could try to upsell you after they dispatch the technician. Instead of trying to upsell you instead of solving your problem, they should upsell you after they solve your problem. I think that should be general rules for consumer relations. It's common, but it's terrible that it's common. If you want to cancel your service you shouldn't be beholden to continue paying because the company filibusters you when you try to cancel. The consumer needs to have a way to exercise their right to terminate the arrangement, and a way to request resolution of a service issue that is not prevented or hindered by a company that would rather not have to fulfill their obligations without making a buck.

exhilaration 12y ago

Very much worth reading for the magic phrase that will stop the upselling: There are a few things customers can do, per the document, to avoid the sales plays: one of them is to flat-out instruct the agent to not attempt to sell you services. "Customer volunteers a 'Don’t sell to me' statement" is explicitly listed under the section titled "Transition to Offer is Not Applicable in the Following Scenarios."

dchuk 12y ago

I'm assuming AT&T has this exact same protocol, because a few weeks ago I called them to get my modem fixed because our internet was down for a day and after talking for 45 minutes and assuring them that yes, I have reset the damn modem, the customer service person tried to sell me more channels on my TV service. Which was hilarious because I don't have TV service with them anymore, only internet. I let him know that it's not appropriate to try and upsell someone on a support call, when the customer's current services aren't even working, much less trying to sell them an upgrade on something the customer doesn't have in the first place. Pretty amazing how well they set their reps up for failure. A little bit of training could go a long way, but I guess what's the incentive if most customers are basically locked into specific service providers depending on their address.

misingnoglic 12y ago
Once I called AT&T for a support issue and they showed me how I could save money on my bill and get more data by switching to a new family plan, that was nice :)

Klinky 12y ago

The things most companies fail at when it comes to customer service are: - Effectively training employees to fully understand the product they are supporting. - Enabling communication channels between departments that lead to timely resolutions. Often you're talking to someone who doesn't know how to fix your problem, isn't sure why things are messed up, has to use a bunch of internal tools that only partially work, may have to communicate with other departments who might as well be black holes and then has to halfheartedly sell you products unrelated to your call. Companies should be using metrics to help guide decisions, but all too often companies are working for metrics instead of having the metrics data work for them them. Instead of diving deeper into the overall customer experience to figure out if they're even measuring the right things, companies often focus success on driving a narrow spectrum of metrics ever higher, at the cost of everything else.

chadgeidel 12y ago

I worked tech support at Gateway (computers) for a short time in the 2001 timeframe. I quit when they based our bonuses on selling upgraded equipment to customers. Worst part? Most techs would lie and tell the customer their blue screen/crashing problems were because they didn't have enough memory (or similar). Tech gets bonus for selling, I have to install the memory and troubleshoot and fix the actual problem, and I get dinged... Comments to management of course went into the recycle bin.

rdl 12y ago

I hate services which require a phone call or other work to unsubscribe, beyond other changes. There is some argument for higher level security validation for certain service changes, but it shouldn't be done for revenue protection reasons. (I tend to let American Express cancel services for me if the site makes it very difficult.)

taber 12y ago

My roommate was recently employed (he quit) at a Comcast branch south of San Francisco. His responsibilities included helping customers with their technical issues, but the only metric of his success was his ratio of sales to customers seen. As a result, he was ranked lower than other employees who saw less clients, solved less problems, but had more sales. I can't think of a better way to discourage customer support and encourage up-selling.