4 ms·

Here's a comment from this project's creator on the demo video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uaple0Ec1Dg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uaple0Ec1Dg): I hav

Here's a comment from this project's creator on the demo video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uaple0Ec1Dg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uaple0Ec1Dg): I have started a job with Apple, and will not be continuing work on this project. The team at Columbia will probably be doing some follow up work, but I won't be involved from here on out. So basically Apple has tried to kill or at least slow down the release of this to the public (he's obviously talented, I'm just saying that killing progress on this project likely factored somewhere into the hiring decision).

bdcravens 12y ago
He did have the option to say no.
Someone1234 12y ago
Or maybe, just maybe, someone who has spent this much time developing a VM for Apple's software architecture has a great skillset and would be a welcome addition to one of Apple's teams. The same exact thing happened to the guy behind ReactOS (an Open Source Windows NT replacement). The guy became /so/ familiar with Windows that he eventually got a job on the actual Windows Kernel team.
- kristopolous 12y ago
  I don't get why hackers want to work at such large companies. If someone has over about 50 employees or about 10 million backing, I don't see what's interesting about it. edit (due to the downvotes): Sorry, this was an honest question. I've been working for about 15 years and have always been really put off by the institutional structure of large companies ... the constitution of them just doesn't work for the kind of green-field I'm (and I thought most hackers) are looking for. I wasn't trying to be negative or deleterious --- I really didn't get it.
  - avalaunch 12y ago
    Bigger paycheck, better benefits, better job security, less and more predictable hours, access to amazing tech.
    - kristopolous 12y ago
      Oh yes, what I call the "family argument" (work rules are different if you have a spouse and kid). I always forget about that one. Makes perfect sense. Sorry about that - it was pretty obvious.
      - mahyarm 12y ago
        You also have the time budget to do things correctly, unlike start ups.
        zem 12y ago
        that was definitely one of my motivations for joining a large company.
        kristopolous 12y ago
        I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but does that honestly come through? I routinely turn down offers from the big players because I imagine once I'm in, it's going to be like the movie Brazil. I've worked for three large companies as a non-contractor - and I mean maybe I just didn't have the right title but I found the following (in all three): * I was prohibited from working on broken things that I was capable of fixing but I wasn't assigned to - even if nobody else was addressing them ... Almost as if there's some internal taxonomy model which strictly defines my role as X and only X. Having things lay broken is so frustrating to me. * Pointing out that projects are on a steady course for derailment and failure was discouraged. Recommending any fix whatsoever was completely a prohibitive. * Questions like "what does the client want?" or "Can I ask the client a question" always came back with things like "That's not your job". * Proposals to big payoffs for small LOEs that would substantially improve the project always got shot down. Probably because the "from" field of the email was wrong. * Creativity, innovation, and working on big new problems was incredibly discouraged. The concept that I have more than just one ability appears either cognitively impossible or structurally incompatible. I got a nice paycheck - the work was relatively stable and secure, and everything was running smoothly --- but I was completely wasting years of my life. On the contrary, all the small companies I've worked for have been the exact opposite. It's not that I necessary want to do contract negotiations and SOW writeups, but it gives clarity and purpose that I was just unable to get from the larger firms. I mean again, maybe it's because my resume doesn't say "PhD, Stanford" on it - I don't know. Has your experience been dramatically different?
  - untog 12y ago
    Why? If a large company is organised correctly (and I'm not saying that MS is for a second) then you aren't interacting with those over >49 employees. In return you might have access to huge datasets, or at the least huge audiences. And as for financial backing... having a ton of money available is very interesting to many hackers, because it allows them to do a great many things. Not ever hacker is a startup entrepreneur.
  - jbigelow76 12y ago
    Take the folks at Walmart Labs (http://www.walmartlabs.com/ http://www.walmartlabs.com/) for instance, NodeJS hackers working on the backend powering Walmart's mobile commerce. A small percentage of hackers will get a chance to work on problems and devise solutions at the sort scale they work on. You certainly won't see similar challenges if you limit your scope to companies with less than 50 people and less than 10 million in funding. Unless you are a founder or maybe a first hire that would seem to preclude you from almost any interesting company coming out of SV in the last 15 or so years.
  - rsynnott 12y ago
    Small companies rarely have the resources to let people work on interesting projects with no immediate obvious commercial viability. You'll never see the equivalent of Microsoft Research in a startup, say.
- piyush_soni 12y ago
  Of course he'd have a great skillset, but still, he won't be working on the project. May be, just may be, Apple had different intentions behind taking this man in.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - al2o3cr 12y ago
    I'm not saying it was aliens, but...
yalogin 12y ago
Ha. I understand the urge to jump there. This is nothing but a research project that does not mean much in the real world. It got that person a job at Apple. So that's a win for that individual. I don't think one can expect more out of the project really.
- downandout 12y ago
  From his perspective, you're absolutely right. But if this had actually seen the light of day, it would have been really, really cool.
- piyush_soni 12y ago
  Sir, 'Google' was once "nothing but a research project".
Igglyboo 12y ago
I think if Apple wanted to kill this they could just C&D or sue them or something. They probably wanted this guy for his actual skills.
- jethro_tell 12y ago
  Yeah, but then they look heavy handed and the cost is probably relatively similar. Not to mention that they get the net gain of the skills. It seems highly likely that Apple has some interest in protecting their brand. Part of the whole "Most amazing phone we've ever made" is the implication that the things you can do on iPhone can't be done on commodity hardware. This would undermine that in a way. To say there is no way they would hire instead of doing a C&D if that was the motive is really silly. We don't know why they did it, but we can basically assume they know he was doing that before the hiring process.
- cookiecaper 12y ago
  It may not be cut and dry to kill it legally. While they probably could do so on a patent or EULA case, if the guy is willing, it's a lot cheaper to just offer him a run-of-the-mill salary and employment package. As soon as he becomes an employee, any substantive future contribution to the project is instantly tainted, even if it's just documentation or giving hints to the new maintainers. At that point, Apple would have a very solid trade secret case, amplified by copyright claims and the violation of the prerequisite NDA. Similar projects know to stay really, really far away from anyone associated with the company whose product they're duplicating. WINE wants nothing to do with you if you've ever come within 500 feet of Microsoft's source code. If the project's founder is willing to give up that easily, it's certainly an easy, cheap way to kill off such a project.

bdcravens 12y ago

He did have the option to say no.

Someone1234 12y ago

Or maybe, just maybe, someone who has spent this much time developing a VM for Apple's software architecture has a great skillset and would be a welcome addition to one of Apple's teams. The same exact thing happened to the guy behind ReactOS (an Open Source Windows NT replacement). The guy became /so/ familiar with Windows that he eventually got a job on the actual Windows Kernel team.

kristopolous 12y ago
I don't get why hackers want to work at such large companies. If someone has over about 50 employees or about 10 million backing, I don't see what's interesting about it. edit (due to the downvotes): Sorry, this was an honest question. I've been working for about 15 years and have always been really put off by the institutional structure of large companies ... the constitution of them just doesn't work for the kind of green-field I'm (and I thought most hackers) are looking for. I wasn't trying to be negative or deleterious --- I really didn't get it.
- avalaunch 12y ago
  Bigger paycheck, better benefits, better job security, less and more predictable hours, access to amazing tech.
  - kristopolous 12y ago
    Oh yes, what I call the "family argument" (work rules are different if you have a spouse and kid). I always forget about that one. Makes perfect sense. Sorry about that - it was pretty obvious.
    - mahyarm 12y ago
      You also have the time budget to do things correctly, unlike start ups.
      - zem 12y ago
        that was definitely one of my motivations for joining a large company.
        kristopolous 12y ago
        I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but does that honestly come through? I routinely turn down offers from the big players because I imagine once I'm in, it's going to be like the movie Brazil. I've worked for three large companies as a non-contractor - and I mean maybe I just didn't have the right title but I found the following (in all three): * I was prohibited from working on broken things that I was capable of fixing but I wasn't assigned to - even if nobody else was addressing them ... Almost as if there's some internal taxonomy model which strictly defines my role as X and only X. Having things lay broken is so frustrating to me. * Pointing out that projects are on a steady course for derailment and failure was discouraged. Recommending any fix whatsoever was completely a prohibitive. * Questions like "what does the client want?" or "Can I ask the client a question" always came back with things like "That's not your job". * Proposals to big payoffs for small LOEs that would substantially improve the project always got shot down. Probably because the "from" field of the email was wrong. * Creativity, innovation, and working on big new problems was incredibly discouraged. The concept that I have more than just one ability appears either cognitively impossible or structurally incompatible. I got a nice paycheck - the work was relatively stable and secure, and everything was running smoothly --- but I was completely wasting years of my life. On the contrary, all the small companies I've worked for have been the exact opposite. It's not that I necessary want to do contract negotiations and SOW writeups, but it gives clarity and purpose that I was just unable to get from the larger firms. I mean again, maybe it's because my resume doesn't say "PhD, Stanford" on it - I don't know. Has your experience been dramatically different?
- untog 12y ago
  Why? If a large company is organised correctly (and I'm not saying that MS is for a second) then you aren't interacting with those over >49 employees. In return you might have access to huge datasets, or at the least huge audiences. And as for financial backing... having a ton of money available is very interesting to many hackers, because it allows them to do a great many things. Not ever hacker is a startup entrepreneur.
- jbigelow76 12y ago
  Take the folks at Walmart Labs (http://www.walmartlabs.com/ http://www.walmartlabs.com/) for instance, NodeJS hackers working on the backend powering Walmart's mobile commerce. A small percentage of hackers will get a chance to work on problems and devise solutions at the sort scale they work on. You certainly won't see similar challenges if you limit your scope to companies with less than 50 people and less than 10 million in funding. Unless you are a founder or maybe a first hire that would seem to preclude you from almost any interesting company coming out of SV in the last 15 or so years.
- rsynnott 12y ago
  Small companies rarely have the resources to let people work on interesting projects with no immediate obvious commercial viability. You'll never see the equivalent of Microsoft Research in a startup, say.
piyush_soni 12y ago
Of course he'd have a great skillset, but still, he won't be working on the project. May be, just may be, Apple had different intentions behind taking this man in.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- al2o3cr 12y ago
  I'm not saying it was aliens, but...

yalogin 12y ago

Ha. I understand the urge to jump there. This is nothing but a research project that does not mean much in the real world. It got that person a job at Apple. So that's a win for that individual. I don't think one can expect more out of the project really.

downandout 12y ago
From his perspective, you're absolutely right. But if this had actually seen the light of day, it would have been really, really cool.
piyush_soni 12y ago
Sir, 'Google' was once "nothing but a research project".

Igglyboo 12y ago

I think if Apple wanted to kill this they could just C&D or sue them or something. They probably wanted this guy for his actual skills.

jethro_tell 12y ago
Yeah, but then they look heavy handed and the cost is probably relatively similar. Not to mention that they get the net gain of the skills. It seems highly likely that Apple has some interest in protecting their brand. Part of the whole "Most amazing phone we've ever made" is the implication that the things you can do on iPhone can't be done on commodity hardware. This would undermine that in a way. To say there is no way they would hire instead of doing a C&D if that was the motive is really silly. We don't know why they did it, but we can basically assume they know he was doing that before the hiring process.
cookiecaper 12y ago
It may not be cut and dry to kill it legally. While they probably could do so on a patent or EULA case, if the guy is willing, it's a lot cheaper to just offer him a run-of-the-mill salary and employment package. As soon as he becomes an employee, any substantive future contribution to the project is instantly tainted, even if it's just documentation or giving hints to the new maintainers. At that point, Apple would have a very solid trade secret case, amplified by copyright claims and the violation of the prerequisite NDA. Similar projects know to stay really, really far away from anyone associated with the company whose product they're duplicating. WINE wants nothing to do with you if you've ever come within 500 feet of Microsoft's source code. If the project's founder is willing to give up that easily, it's certainly an easy, cheap way to kill off such a project.