3 ms·

This is pretty much a cheap and default comment, but I would be so happy if everybody (especially websites calling themselves the "DealBook") would start plotti

This is pretty much a cheap and default comment, but I would be so happy if everybody (especially websites calling themselves the "DealBook") would start plotting prices on a logarithmic scale.

rsynnott 12y ago
Why? Highly misleading if you don't know what you're looking at, and of dubious value for prices of most things even if you do.
- ars 12y ago
  Did you reply to the wrong person? Did you mean to say that a non-logarithmic graph is highly misleading? Because a logarithmic graph is the only way to see the true value of anything financial that has price changes.
- 3pt14159 12y ago
  Because a straight line means constant compounding gains.
- grmarcil 12y ago
  A log scale plot shows fluctuations of equal percentage with equal visual size, so it is particularly useful in the case of bitcoin, where you may be interested in comparing price swings at $100 levels and $1 levels. Eg. A log scale plot shows a $1 to $2 increase as the same vertical hight as a $100 to $200 increase. In a linear scale plot, all you notice is the $100 to $200 increase and the $1 to $2 swing looks like nothing.
  - rsynnott 12y ago
    Bitcoin's no longer really fluctuating at such a rate that this feature is valuable enough to offset potential confusion in a news article for general consumption, though.
    - ars 12y ago
      > to offset potential confusion I don't understand how you can say that. A logarithmic graph is LESS confusing. With a non-logarithmic graph you have to mentally "warp" the graph to learn anything from it - I doubt people can do that in their head. It makes little difference how much the value changes - that's the entire POINT of a logarithmic graph, it works perfectly for small changes and for large.
  - d23 12y ago
    Doh! I somehow after 16 years of education never managed to understand the point of the log scale. Thank you.
idlewords 12y ago
Currency exchange rates aren't supposed to need a logarithmic scale. That would be a visual equivalent of burying the lede.
- ars 12y ago
  > Currency exchange rates aren't supposed to need a logarithmic scale. That makes no sense at all. A logarithmic scale works perfectly for small fluctuations or large.
- oleganza 12y ago
  Logarithmic scale makes sense for everyone. If you buy at X dollars and has 100% return when the price is 2X it does not matter what X actually is. Logarithmic scale reflects relative changes which is the only interesting metric for investors. If Bitcoin was traded at $98 12 months ago and now trades at $480, it shows relative change of 400% while the prices themselves do not tell you much.
  - idlewords 12y ago
    If bitcoin can go from $98 to $480 in twelve months, that's a glowing sign to merchants saying "BITCOIN TOO VOLATILE TO USE". Investors are not the only audience. I want that big, scary, spiky graph.
    - ars 12y ago
      > I want that big, scary, spiky graph. You can also just fake the numbers if that's what you want. A non-logarithmically graph is just completely misleading. If you see spikes on a logarithmically graph then you are talking volatile. Spikes on a non-logarithmically graph mean nothing whatsoever.
    - tlrobinson 12y ago
      Merchants don't care (except to the extent consumers care), they almost all use BitPay / Coinbase to insulate themselves from volatility.
    - 12y ago
sgustard 12y ago
Here's a log graph. https://blockchain.info/charts/market-price?timespan=all&daysAverageString=1&scale=1&address= https://blockchain.info/charts/market-price?timespan=all&day...
brotherbitcoin 12y ago
Signed up to say that there's a log chart of daily average Bitcoin prices + annotated events here: https://bitcoinhelp.net/know/more/price-chart-history?log=1 https://bitcoinhelp.net/know/more/price-chart-history?log=1 You can also toggle the chart to display a linear axis.

This is pretty much a cheap and default comment, but I would be so happy if everybody (especially websites calling themselves the "DealBook") would start plotting prices on a logarithmic scale.

rsynnott 12y ago

Why? Highly misleading if you don't know what you're looking at, and of dubious value for prices of most things even if you do.

ars 12y ago
Did you reply to the wrong person? Did you mean to say that a non-logarithmic graph is highly misleading? Because a logarithmic graph is the only way to see the true value of anything financial that has price changes.
3pt14159 12y ago
Because a straight line means constant compounding gains.
grmarcil 12y ago
A log scale plot shows fluctuations of equal percentage with equal visual size, so it is particularly useful in the case of bitcoin, where you may be interested in comparing price swings at $100 levels and $1 levels. Eg. A log scale plot shows a $1 to $2 increase as the same vertical hight as a $100 to $200 increase. In a linear scale plot, all you notice is the $100 to $200 increase and the $1 to $2 swing looks like nothing.
- rsynnott 12y ago
  Bitcoin's no longer really fluctuating at such a rate that this feature is valuable enough to offset potential confusion in a news article for general consumption, though.
  - ars 12y ago
    > to offset potential confusion I don't understand how you can say that. A logarithmic graph is LESS confusing. With a non-logarithmic graph you have to mentally "warp" the graph to learn anything from it - I doubt people can do that in their head. It makes little difference how much the value changes - that's the entire POINT of a logarithmic graph, it works perfectly for small changes and for large.
- d23 12y ago
  Doh! I somehow after 16 years of education never managed to understand the point of the log scale. Thank you.

idlewords 12y ago

Currency exchange rates aren't supposed to need a logarithmic scale. That would be a visual equivalent of burying the lede.

ars 12y ago
> Currency exchange rates aren't supposed to need a logarithmic scale. That makes no sense at all. A logarithmic scale works perfectly for small fluctuations or large.
oleganza 12y ago
Logarithmic scale makes sense for everyone. If you buy at X dollars and has 100% return when the price is 2X it does not matter what X actually is. Logarithmic scale reflects relative changes which is the only interesting metric for investors. If Bitcoin was traded at $98 12 months ago and now trades at $480, it shows relative change of 400% while the prices themselves do not tell you much.
- idlewords 12y ago
  If bitcoin can go from $98 to $480 in twelve months, that's a glowing sign to merchants saying "BITCOIN TOO VOLATILE TO USE". Investors are not the only audience. I want that big, scary, spiky graph.
  - ars 12y ago
    > I want that big, scary, spiky graph. You can also just fake the numbers if that's what you want. A non-logarithmically graph is just completely misleading. If you see spikes on a logarithmically graph then you are talking volatile. Spikes on a non-logarithmically graph mean nothing whatsoever.
  - tlrobinson 12y ago
    Merchants don't care (except to the extent consumers care), they almost all use BitPay / Coinbase to insulate themselves from volatility.
  - 12y ago

sgustard 12y ago

Here's a log graph. https://blockchain.info/charts/market-price?timespan=all&daysAverageString=1&scale=1&address= https://blockchain.info/charts/market-price?timespan=all&day...

brotherbitcoin 12y ago

Signed up to say that there's a log chart of daily average Bitcoin prices + annotated events here: https://bitcoinhelp.net/know/more/price-chart-history?log=1 https://bitcoinhelp.net/know/more/price-chart-history?log=1 You can also toggle the chart to display a linear axis.