4 ms·

>three weeks of frustration So what did you do, stare at a wall for 20 days and then finally do the upgrade on the 21st day? This makes absolutely no sense to

>three weeks of frustration So what did you do, stare at a wall for 20 days and then finally do the upgrade on the 21st day? This makes absolutely no sense to me.

lucb1e 12y ago
Try to use it and fail to do basic tasks, like, typing "run.sh" assuming it would do the same as "run.bat", forgetting that it should be "./run.sh". Then it still doesn't work because, even as root, you "don't have permissions". Turned out you needed to give it executable permissions too. That kind of frustration of getting things to work. Edit: To clarify, this was in my first weeks of Linux. I'm no longer this noob (in fact, teachers and classmates regard me as the local linux guru, even the teacher that is teaching us linux basics).
- CalRobert 12y ago
  I'm sure there are other good resources too, but I thoroughly recommend The Linux Command Line from NoStarch press. There are times when just trying what comes to mind and googling stuff on StackExchange makes sense, and times when getting a good resource (e.g. a book) that covers the topic in detail makes sense. Moving to a completely new OS is the latter.
  - lucb1e 12y ago
    Hmm, I never liked those books on subjects like operating systems or programming languages or something. Tried a few times, but they generally have a low information density (telling it in the typical book-like fashion) and go into details that you don't need or remember. I usually learn by googling or asking others when I don't know what to google. Perhaps a short introduction might have been useful, but it depends on the person what you want to use and thus what you should be taught first. I'd be bored if it introduced me to things like the difference between /dev/random and /dev/urandom when I didn't even know what executable permissions were. Fun fact: last semester we got Linux lessons in school and this (u)random difference is one of the things they taught (alongside the basics like rm and grep usage). Nobody even knows what entropy is.
    - eru 12y ago
      > Hmm, I never liked those books on subjects like operating systems or programming languages or something. Tried a few times, but they generally have a low information density (telling it in the typical book-like fashion) and go into details that you don't need or remember. I usually learn by googling or asking others when I don't know what to google. This works well when you already know enough to have a mental framework. For learning something new, say Forth or Prolog or Haskell, a longer document might be worth reading.
      - lucb1e 12y ago
        Good point, I did start reading a tutorial for Prolog once (though didn't get far before getting bored). I think if I wanted to do anything in Prolog now, I'd read a bit more from that tutorial and then start googling specific needs, so yeah the tutorial (which is comparable to a book) was needed to build a mental framework.
- areyouseriousss 12y ago
  This is because you have no idea what you're doing, not because anything is particularly difficult. You also didn't keep your skills current. You'd have the same problem jumping 10+ years forward in any technology.
  - jenscow 12y ago
    Give him a break. I'm sure if you moved from Linux to Windows, you'd have even more frustration than he had.
    - dscrd 12y ago
      Perhaps it's different these days, but when I moved to Linux in '96, my primary experience was a distinct lack of frustration when compared to the previous.
    - rbanffy 12y ago
      In 2008, I got hired by a web portal that was part of a large telco. Obviously, according to all processes and rules, I got a Windows machine. Even though I was hired for a management role and my working environment was pretty much Outlook and MS Project, working on Windows was enormously frustrating. Ever tried navigating the control panel to find something?
      - lucb1e 12y ago
        > Ever tried navigating the control panel to find something? I know right? In XP you just had a list which you would look through and that's it. In Vista+ there are always two or three categories which might contain it. Sure the search feature is your friend, but for that you need to know what term Microsoft thought to use.
        rbanffy 12y ago
        And that does not include third party modules that have their own ideas about user interface conventions and often conflict with whatever modules were installed with Windows. Wi-fi is one such thing where all kinds of weirdness abound.
- ekianjo 12y ago
  > That kind of frustration of getting things to work. It's more like a lack of understanding that the system is different at its core. Of course there is a learning curve, and not everything is the same. I have been a long time Windows User but now I appreciate way more bash on Linux than any other shell on the Windows world. And permissions are key to prevent breaking your system when you don't know what you are doing, so they are very good safeguards in that sense.
  - lucb1e 12y ago
    > Of course there is a learning curve, and not everything is the same. Of course, but it still was frustrating. Anyhow, that was how my XP upgrade went :)
    - tormeh 12y ago
      I think most Linux users are a bit touchy about the divide between "getting things to work" and "learning new ways of doing things" because the former is about drivers and things that are the Linux ecosystem's fault while the latter is taste.
      - lucb1e 12y ago
        > the former [getting things to work] is about drivers and things that are the Linux ecosystem's fault I don't really understand what you mean here. Are you saying all Linux issues are either driver issues or issues due to the open source mindset (the ecosystem) of Linux? > while the latter [learning new ways of doing things] is taste. (If I understand you correctly...) I think it's what you're used to more than taste. I had issues the first few weeks, but that wasn't because I prefer Windows, it's because I was used to Windows. Taste is sometimes defined by what you are used to, but not always. Music is a good example: we don't always like what we are used to or heard in the past, oftentimes our taste in music is completely different from what we have been exposed to the most.
- jenscow 12y ago
  Congratulations on making the switch! At around the time of Windows 8 beta/preview I switched to Linux. I've been developing with Windows since, er.. DOS. It took about a month to re-wire my muscle memory, but once the initial pain is over I feel free in so many ways. I now enjoy my work, and I have my computer back.
  - lucb1e 12y ago
    > I feel free in so many ways I know exactly what you mean :)

>three weeks of frustration So what did you do, stare at a wall for 20 days and then finally do the upgrade on the 21st day? This makes absolutely no sense to me.

lucb1e 12y ago

Try to use it and fail to do basic tasks, like, typing "run.sh" assuming it would do the same as "run.bat", forgetting that it should be "./run.sh". Then it still doesn't work because, even as root, you "don't have permissions". Turned out you needed to give it executable permissions too. That kind of frustration of getting things to work. Edit: To clarify, this was in my first weeks of Linux. I'm no longer this noob (in fact, teachers and classmates regard me as the local linux guru, even the teacher that is teaching us linux basics).

CalRobert 12y ago
I'm sure there are other good resources too, but I thoroughly recommend The Linux Command Line from NoStarch press. There are times when just trying what comes to mind and googling stuff on StackExchange makes sense, and times when getting a good resource (e.g. a book) that covers the topic in detail makes sense. Moving to a completely new OS is the latter.
- lucb1e 12y ago
  Hmm, I never liked those books on subjects like operating systems or programming languages or something. Tried a few times, but they generally have a low information density (telling it in the typical book-like fashion) and go into details that you don't need or remember. I usually learn by googling or asking others when I don't know what to google. Perhaps a short introduction might have been useful, but it depends on the person what you want to use and thus what you should be taught first. I'd be bored if it introduced me to things like the difference between /dev/random and /dev/urandom when I didn't even know what executable permissions were. Fun fact: last semester we got Linux lessons in school and this (u)random difference is one of the things they taught (alongside the basics like rm and grep usage). Nobody even knows what entropy is.
  - eru 12y ago
    > Hmm, I never liked those books on subjects like operating systems or programming languages or something. Tried a few times, but they generally have a low information density (telling it in the typical book-like fashion) and go into details that you don't need or remember. I usually learn by googling or asking others when I don't know what to google. This works well when you already know enough to have a mental framework. For learning something new, say Forth or Prolog or Haskell, a longer document might be worth reading.
    - lucb1e 12y ago
      Good point, I did start reading a tutorial for Prolog once (though didn't get far before getting bored). I think if I wanted to do anything in Prolog now, I'd read a bit more from that tutorial and then start googling specific needs, so yeah the tutorial (which is comparable to a book) was needed to build a mental framework.
areyouseriousss 12y ago
This is because you have no idea what you're doing, not because anything is particularly difficult. You also didn't keep your skills current. You'd have the same problem jumping 10+ years forward in any technology.
- jenscow 12y ago
  Give him a break. I'm sure if you moved from Linux to Windows, you'd have even more frustration than he had.
  - dscrd 12y ago
    Perhaps it's different these days, but when I moved to Linux in '96, my primary experience was a distinct lack of frustration when compared to the previous.
  - rbanffy 12y ago
    In 2008, I got hired by a web portal that was part of a large telco. Obviously, according to all processes and rules, I got a Windows machine. Even though I was hired for a management role and my working environment was pretty much Outlook and MS Project, working on Windows was enormously frustrating. Ever tried navigating the control panel to find something?
    - lucb1e 12y ago
      > Ever tried navigating the control panel to find something? I know right? In XP you just had a list which you would look through and that's it. In Vista+ there are always two or three categories which might contain it. Sure the search feature is your friend, but for that you need to know what term Microsoft thought to use.
      - rbanffy 12y ago
        And that does not include third party modules that have their own ideas about user interface conventions and often conflict with whatever modules were installed with Windows. Wi-fi is one such thing where all kinds of weirdness abound.
ekianjo 12y ago
> That kind of frustration of getting things to work. It's more like a lack of understanding that the system is different at its core. Of course there is a learning curve, and not everything is the same. I have been a long time Windows User but now I appreciate way more bash on Linux than any other shell on the Windows world. And permissions are key to prevent breaking your system when you don't know what you are doing, so they are very good safeguards in that sense.
- lucb1e 12y ago
  > Of course there is a learning curve, and not everything is the same. Of course, but it still was frustrating. Anyhow, that was how my XP upgrade went :)
  - tormeh 12y ago
    I think most Linux users are a bit touchy about the divide between "getting things to work" and "learning new ways of doing things" because the former is about drivers and things that are the Linux ecosystem's fault while the latter is taste.
    - lucb1e 12y ago
      > the former [getting things to work] is about drivers and things that are the Linux ecosystem's fault I don't really understand what you mean here. Are you saying all Linux issues are either driver issues or issues due to the open source mindset (the ecosystem) of Linux? > while the latter [learning new ways of doing things] is taste. (If I understand you correctly...) I think it's what you're used to more than taste. I had issues the first few weeks, but that wasn't because I prefer Windows, it's because I was used to Windows. Taste is sometimes defined by what you are used to, but not always. Music is a good example: we don't always like what we are used to or heard in the past, oftentimes our taste in music is completely different from what we have been exposed to the most.
jenscow 12y ago
Congratulations on making the switch! At around the time of Windows 8 beta/preview I switched to Linux. I've been developing with Windows since, er.. DOS. It took about a month to re-wire my muscle memory, but once the initial pain is over I feel free in so many ways. I now enjoy my work, and I have my computer back.
- lucb1e 12y ago
  > I feel free in so many ways I know exactly what you mean :)