9 ms·
Seneca: On the Shortness of Life
- stingraycharles 12y agoThis is an essay I will always remember. It helped me get through a burn-out, and contains a lot of wise lessons. One quote specifically touched me: "The part of life we really live is small."5 For all the rest of existence is not life, but merely time. Cherish the moments you really live. The moments you create your memories.
- apineda 12y agoI really enjoyed "The mind that is untroubled and tranquil has the power to roam into all parts of its life". I feel as if this validates my current decision to write a book about all the mistakes I made in my college years.
- thret 12y agoI like: "You squander time as if you drew from a full and abundant supply, though all the while that day which you bestow on some person or thing is perhaps your last. You have all the fears of mortals and all the desires of immortals."
- stingraycharles 12y agoThere are so many beautiful gems in there. This one might be particulary good for the HN community also: "Can anything be sillier than the point of view of certain people—I mean those who boast of their foresight? They keep themselves very busily engaged in order that they may be able to live better; they spend life in making ready to live! " People, here on HN also, are so busy planning their future life ("I will retire when I'm 40!"), that they spend all their life planning their life, without actually living their life. Ah... I could give a seminar about this essay. It helped me in so many ways.
- riemannzeta 12y agoThose who feel they have discovered a treasure here should consider reading Seneca "On Anger" and Musonius Rufus also.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- IvyMike 12y agoI'm not sure why this is on HN today, but in a Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon kind of way, I just came across it yesterday. It was in this commencement speech at University of Minnesota College of Liberal Arts by musician/artist/writer Dessa. It's 22 minutes long, so maybe you'll skip it, but it's a surprisingly inspiring and motivating speech: http://youtu.be/u38ue-XxHtw http://youtu.be/u38ue-XxHtw
- ssm008 12y agoYeah, read about Seneca yesterday. I like the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon, makes things feel special.
- krsree 12y agoWent thru an e-mail yesterday from Amazon that my wish-list book by Seneca:Letters from Stoic was on discount, but couldnt buy it on time. BM Phenomenon again!
- pcl 12y ago"Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon" is evidently also known as frequency illusion. Wikipedia defines it as: illusion in which a word, a name or other thing that has recently come to one's attention suddenly seems to appear with improbable frequency shortly afterwards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases#Frequency_illusion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases#Freque...
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- buster 12y agoAlso a good read is Ciceros Cato Maior de Senectute: http://www.bartleby.com/9/2/1.html http://www.bartleby.com/9/2/1.html A philosophical story about aging and death
- sundance0 12y ago+1 for de Senectute. Very insightful work
- delinquentme 12y agoAnd imagine how wise he would be now if still alive. Fight Aging.
- staunch 12y agoYup. A ~2017 year old Seneca would probably laugh at the kid he was when he wrote this. People don't like to be reminded that aging is going to stop being a thing. It's too scary because all of us are going to miss the ultimate boat.
- sgt101 12y agoBut if we win, how will we fit newness into the world? Old men should die, their children should be allowed a tilt at creating a better future for themselves.
- eli_gottlieb 12y agoNewness? You mean neuroplasticity allowing for people to grow new ideas based on the world around them?
- sgt101 12y agoI think that extends what I meant. Children sometimes have radically different perspectives and ideas, in my experience anyway. I find working with new graduates quite sobering; when I get to the bottom of some odd idea or input I often find that there is a great deal of sense in what they say, but the cognitive dissonance between their stance and my stance sometimes prevents me from really accepting that they are right. When I "move on" they will have their day and things will change as a result. I don't know if that is good or bad, but it is new and different and I think that my ideas have not really been that successful in terms of coping with or improving the world. I think children's ability to internalize a world system is possibly an advantage now given that the world of now is sharply different from the world of the 1970's when I grew up. When they come to formulate new ideas about how to run things they may have a much more solid grasp of reality than the view of our generation.
- anvarik 12y agoI am currently reading Letters from a Stoic, somehow the style resembles except the fact that it is not written to Lucilius
- freshfey 12y agoLetters from a Stoic is one of my favorite books on life in general. Almost everyone I gave the book found something applicable for his/her life - definitely a recommended read!
- msane 12y agoI would not have expected Seneca to be the top result. Good on you HN.
- kartman 12y agoYup, the printed version of this book is always a go to favorite read of mine. Highly recommend. Among Stoics I found this most easy and good to read repeatedly. In some ways Benjamin Franklin's autobiography also feels similar, not sure why.
- myhf 12y ago(49 CE)
- randomacct001 12y agoThis is why I keep coming back to HN. Everyday I find weird and wonderful surprises on the front page.
- untothebreach 12y agoI really enjoy the writings of the Stoic philosophers. If you enjoyed Seneca, you should check out Marcus Aurelius' Meditations[1] and Epictetus' Discourses[2] EDIT: changed the links to Project Gutenberg links on jwdunne's suggestion 1: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2680 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2680 2: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10661 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10661
- jwdunne 12y agoBecause of age of the writings, you can probably find free digital copies on Gutenberg.org. I'm sure that's how I got Meditations.
- untothebreach 12y agoGood idea. Edited to include them.
- jcd748 12y agoI just finished Aurelius' "Meditations" last month - my family has a small, leatherbound copy that was a gift to my great-grandfather for Christmas, 1924. I found it particularly resonant, incredible for a text that's almost two thousands years old.
- pjmlp 12y agoThis is why it is so valuable to preserve the writings across centuries. I always find a deep sense of joy being able to read such interesting thoughts that were put on paper, papyrus, wood, stone so many centuries ago. In a similar timeframe will anyone be able to read our digital thoughts?
- MrRage 12y ago> In a similar timeframe will anyone be able to read our digital thoughts? Lots of famous writing from the ancient world doesn't survive in the original and had to be copied; what we have is copies of copies of copies, etc. And plenty of ancient works are lost. We will need to copy to newer media what is important for archival purposes even now it seems.
- sebkomianos 12y agoOnce concern is that while we still discover ancient works, with digital if something is lost, it's 99% lost for good.
- petercooper 12y agoI wrote some notes with choice quotes, etc, on this book several years ago: http://peterc.org/pedia/seneca-shortness-of-life/ http://peterc.org/pedia/seneca-shortness-of-life/ - it might whet the appetite of anyone without the time to read the full thing right now.
- 3rd3 12y agoSummary: An unexamined life without art and wisdom is short.
- jcromartie 12y agoPerhaps I just need to keep reading, but he seems to be speaking against squandering time, being engrossed, attached (hints of Buddhism here), etc., but he does not offer any advice other than seizing the day and tending to your own desires, which sounds a lot like the hedonism he is denouncing at the very same time. Are there some activities that are not vices, and are not "giving away" your time?
- andreer 12y agoSkip to Chapter XIV, if you must. "Of all men they alone are at leisure who take time for philosophy, they alone really live; for they are not content to be good guardians of their own lifetime only".
- sbmassey 12y agoOf course, in practice Seneca was considered rather hypocritical. But I guess being an important aristocrat during the reign of Nero does that to you. The best book I have read on the Stoics is the Cambridge Companion to the Stoics, by the way, which has articles on every aspect of the philosophical movement.
- Padding 12y agoStoicism is an interesting way to look at things and it certainly does make for some engaging mental exercises .. but I'm not sure how much actual value it can provide to everyday life. One major problem with it, speaking as a 30-year old, is that it's not trivial to come up with some "ultimage goal" or "prime principle" for life. But maybe that's just me being unimaginative and isn't necessarily a flaw of the philosophy itself. The real issue is that being consequent about stoicism seems to always result in contradiction given mankind's current state of knowledge. On one hand stoicism is concerned with not wasting time (on indulgences) and at the same time it ignores that a market economy (embedded in a democratic society) is the only way we know of, that can reliably force a larger population to strive for efficiency. Of course the market economy isn't free - we pay for it by e.g. giving up moral values. It still allows for huge bubbles of inefficiency to form - things like complicance regulations that provide zero real value and only serve as market barriers. And of course we're all just fallible selfish humans, so there's no shortage of people studying and abusing these processes. But all these points are, practically speaking, irrelevant, seeing as how there are no (better) alternatives (yet). So what is a stoic to do? Give up on a proven path to efficiency because he doesn't want to be a "tool"? Just imagine how much more of our time would be wasted if there weren't an army of "tools" out there, working 8 hours a day towards the "indulgence" of ensuring that there is allways enough fresh milk stocked in the supermarkets of our cities.
- bitL 12y agoWell, whether you like or not, your main meta-goal seems to be "efficiency" from what you've written, so that seems to be your subconscious "ultimate goal" or "prime principle". This is why knowing about various philosophical currents is very important, because whether you are aware of it or not, you are making philosophical choices, and many of those were already made by people before you.
- Padding 12y ago> your main meta-goal seems to be "efficiency" No I didn't say that. I said stoicism seems concerned about efficiency. > you are making philosophical choices, and many of those were already made by people before you That's true. My criticism though isn't about philosophy as a whole - just about stoicism because it seems to be contradictory.
- mattjaynes 12y agoFor a very accessible and practical guide to Seneca (and other stoic philosophers), check out "A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy" by William Irvine The title is a little cheesy, but the content is gold. It's one of the books I re-read (or re-listen to via Audible) multiple times a year. I find the repetition is really valuable since I can slip so easily back into my old thought patterns. When I count books that have been most helpful to me, this one is at the top of the list (followed by "War of Art" by Pressfield). For a synopsis, check out Derek Sivers book notes on it: https://sivers.org/book/StoicJoy https://sivers.org/book/StoicJoy Derek's intro to the notes: "Rating: 10/10. Almost too personal for me to give an objective review, because I found when reading it that the quirky philosophy I've been living my life by since 17 matches up exactly with a 2000-year-old philosophy called Stoicism. Mine was self-developed haphazardly, so it was fascinating to read the refined developed original. Really resonated."
- mikepilla 12y agoGreat recommendation. Irvine sets the historical background and suggests practical application. I plan on revisiting the original texts, this time with more meaning, and context.
- jedc 12y agoI wholeheartedly agree. I found it both interesting, and "actionable". It's helped me in very tangible way, particularly in stressful situations where I might have otherwise lost my cool.
- dome82 12y agoI agree with you. I re-read it multiple times and doing it again in these days. The content has been so helpful in critical situations in my life like the death of my father. I should probably buy the Audible version too... Another great book that I would like to suggest is Meditations by Marcus Aurelius.
- ca98am79 12y ago+1 for Meditations
- ealloc 12y agoSeneca sounds extremely privileged to me. His advice might be useful to rich people, but not the vast majority of people (in his time, or ours) who have to work hard just to survive. His main complaint is against rich people who "squandered in luxury and carelessness", the various ways in which "riches [are] a burden", how men care too much about the "limit of their lands". Almost every sentence seems spoken to someone too rich for his own good, with too many slaves, mistresses, clients, and land. It fits in with my picture of Rome as having a strong class hierarchy (and up to 30% slaves!). This are the words from the "optimo iure" to themselves.
- graeme 12y agoI'd suggest reading him again. And this time, read luxury as "that which is not necessary", rather than "excessive opulence". And then read the other parts that don't talk about wealth. Seneca was solace to me when staring death in the face (Cancer) and I can assure you money was no use then. Seneca was bloody privileged, but he produced a system that helps deal with the problems of privilege (they exist) and also the problems of lack of privilege.
- judk 12y agoIf you are working hard to survive, you don't have time to think and experience existential dread. If you have time, you have the luxury Seneca talks about.
- rthomas6 12y agoIn that case, try The Enchiridion[1] by Epictetus. Epictetus was also a Stoic philosopher who was born a slave. He was eventually freed, and then he was banished from Rome (along with all philosophers). He was lame for most of his life. Yet by all accounts he was happy and successful. [1] http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html
- eruditely 12y agoYour comment is so out of line. You are still wealthier than him by vast amounts. So no matter what you think he sounds like. You can still benefit from his advice.
- michaelsbradley 12y agoThose interested in Stoicism, and who are curious if and how its ideals might be "baptized" and employed in a Christian philosophy of life, ought to look into the writings of Fr. Alphonsus Rodriguez, who has been described by some as a "Christian Seneca": Practice of Perfection and Christian Virtues https://archive.org/details/PPCV-Manresa https://archive.org/details/PPCV-Manresa
- jcromartie 12y agoNot to mention the church fathers called him "our Seneca"
- k-mcgrady 12y agoI recently started reading "Letters from a Stoic" [1] and I'd highly recommend it. It's a collection of letters, each a few pages long, written by Seneca. I read one a day and have a pen nearby as I'll typically find at least 5 useful pieces of advice or useful ways of looking at things differently. [1] http://www.amazon.co.uk/Letters-Stoic-Epistulae-Lucilium-Classics/dp/0140442103 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Letters-Stoic-Epistulae-Lucilium-Cla... Edit: in fact the letter I read yesterday was, like the one posted here, on life. Some things I liked from it: "...death ought to be right there before the eyes of a young man just as much as an old one. [...] Every day, therefore, should be regulated as if it were the one that brings up the rear, the one that rounds out and completes our lives." "To live under constraint is a misfortune, but there is no constraint to live under constraint." "Whoever has said 'I have lived' receives a windfall every day he gets up in the morning."
- 0800899g 12y agocrazy how the stoics and buddhists never met .
- akurilin 12y agoI was going to say, there are so many wonderful parallels between the two philosophies. No reason not to merge them.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- EGreg 12y agoI have read this, and my question is, what kind of activities does Seneca consider NOT wasting time?