3 ms·

Sure you have. Here's an easier example: "I told him that." instead of "I told that to him."

dragonwriter 12y ago
> Sure you have. I'd rather you not try to speak for my experience, since clearly you have no basis for doing so. In any case, you are wrong, possibly because you are confusing two different constructions for the same construction. > Here's an easier example: "I told him that." instead of "I told that to him." That's not the same construction as "She sold it him" in place of "She sold it to him"; its a different construction in which changes to word order conveys the same relationship that is conveyed by prepositions in the form with preopositions. The same construction would be "I told that him". There's a difference between being able to simply drop the prepositions and with there being an alternative mechanism of using word order to replace the prepositions.
- thaumasiotes 12y ago
  You're just moving the goalposts here. Look upthread and you'll see yourself saying that we're talking about examples "where those things [directional indicators like the preposition to] aren't required in English". You've already picked up two comments pointing out that gioele made an obvious mistake when referencing a rule we're all familiar with. Since the only claim was that directional prepositions "are not always used or needed" even when they're permitted, the details of how you might avoid using them are completely irrelevant -- it's sufficient that it's possible to omit them.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > Look upthread and you'll see yourself saying that we're talking about examples "where those things [directional indicators like the preposition to] aren't required in English". And you'll see in the same post that I quoted that that I criticized not the concept that the indicators were not required, but the particular example given as being a poor example as it was not an example of a construction that was idiomatic English in current use by native speakers. "I don't think its an example of a case where those things aren't required in English" in reference to a particular construction is not a claim that there are not other constructions which would be a valid example.

> Sure you have. I'd rather you not try to speak for my experience, since clearly you have no basis for doing so. In any case, you are wrong, possibly because you are confusing two different constructions for the same construction. > Here's an easier example: "I told him that." instead of "I told that to him." That's not the same construction as "She sold it him" in place of "She sold it to him"; its a different construction in which changes to word order conveys the same relationship that is conveyed by prepositions in the form with preopositions. The same construction would be "I told that him". There's a difference between being able to simply drop the prepositions and with there being an alternative mechanism of using word order to replace the prepositions.

thaumasiotes 12y ago
You're just moving the goalposts here. Look upthread and you'll see yourself saying that we're talking about examples "where those things [directional indicators like the preposition to] aren't required in English". You've already picked up two comments pointing out that gioele made an obvious mistake when referencing a rule we're all familiar with. Since the only claim was that directional prepositions "are not always used or needed" even when they're permitted, the details of how you might avoid using them are completely irrelevant -- it's sufficient that it's possible to omit them.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > Look upthread and you'll see yourself saying that we're talking about examples "where those things [directional indicators like the preposition to] aren't required in English". And you'll see in the same post that I quoted that that I criticized not the concept that the indicators were not required, but the particular example given as being a poor example as it was not an example of a construction that was idiomatic English in current use by native speakers. "I don't think its an example of a case where those things aren't required in English" in reference to a particular construction is not a claim that there are not other constructions which would be a valid example.