4 ms·

First of all, it doesn't cost $267 to get from Manchester to London. That's an order of magnitude high. Even Amtrak isn't that bad ($0.65 per person per hour) a

First of all, it doesn't cost $267 to get from Manchester to London. That's an order of magnitude high. Even Amtrak isn't that bad ($0.65 per person per hour) and Europe has cheaper, faster, and better rail service than the US by far. That said, I think it's really amusing and interesting that the only thing it's going to take in order to beat Uber, in the long term, is: not be Uber. Just having a more likable CEO and full transparency when dynamic ("surge") pricing is used would go a long way.

justincormack 12y ago
It does, if you want to buy a peak time ticket (eg 730am) tomorrow morning, I just looked it up. Europe may have a cheaper, faster and better rail service, but the UK is not party to the cheaper bit. You can buy cheap tickets, if you book in advance.
Marazan 12y ago
UK rail pricing is as complicated and as dynamic as airline pricing - $267 is well within the bounds of possibility for that route.
nemothekid 12y ago
What isn't transparent about surge pricing? The app straight up tells you "you will be paying more for this ride." If you don't like it, get a regular cab. I don't know why people act as if Uber is twisting their arm when it comes to surge pricing.
- foobarqux 12y ago
  It's transparent but variable pricing interferes with planning and requires repeated decision making, increasing stress. Imagine if grocery food doubled in price spontaneously several times a week.
  - wutbrodo 12y ago
    No, imagine if normal grocery stores (or restaurants) were consistently out of stock at normal high-demand times (i.e. sacrificed predictable availability for predictable price), and a new grocery store opened up whose selling point was predictable availability instead of predictable pricing. It's absolute nonsense to categorically state that variable pricing interferes with planning more than variable availability does. In particular when the variable availability, fixed-price option is still an alternative.
    - foobarqux 12y ago
      I think the right solution is to fix an easy to remember price schedule in advance.
      - wutbrodo 12y ago
        All that does is shift Uber along the spectrum of predictable availability vs predictable price. You have the cognitive load of remembering/having to check a schedule, plus no guarantee of availability, since the schedule will be a highly imperfect predictor of demand, as well as not accounting for unforeseen surges in demand. That seems like it would be more stressful and a worse solution than either of the other options (taxis' fully fixed-price or Uber's fully-floating price), since you don't even know what part of the spectrum you'll end up on at any given point!
        foobarqux 12y ago
        I assume demand in major cities doesn't really change that much so that the schedule is announced and updated very rarely (similar to public transportation). Yes, you would occasionally sacrifice some availability but I think people prefer that trade-off.
        nemothekid 12y ago
        If I wanted to sacrifice availability, I would use a Taxi. Uber, first and foremost, an on-demand ride flagging application. If Uber can't find me a ride then the app is broken - I lose any incentive to pay any surge pricing if I am going to get the same availability from Uber that I would get from a Taxi cab. Any savvy individual (who needs to be able to schedule their Uber rides in advance for whatever reason, instead of just using a Taxi to schedule rides like others have been doing for the last 50 years) will quickly learn when surge pricing is effect namely, Weekday mornings when people are going to work, Weekday evenings when people are leaving work, Weekend nights (sometimes), and any event where you can expect alot of people going home at the same time (concerts, sports games). In any case, and back to my original point, Uber doesn't force you to use their service and they are not the only game in town. If availability is more important predictability get an Uber, otherwise just get a Taxi. It doesn't make sense for Uber to become more like Taxis because people are unaware they have choices.
  - nostrademons 12y ago
    Grocery food doubles in price all the time...it's called a sale. Soda goes for anywhere from $0.69/2liter to $1.29 at my local Safeway, for the same brands, just at different times. Groceries have just learned that people react better to high baseline prices and occasional labeled discounts than low baseline prices and occasional surcharges. Most people just get used to paying whatever the checkout bill is at the grocery. Or if money is tight, then yes, it does cause increased stress, but middle-class American society seemingly doesn't care about the routine stresses of being poor. UberX is not targeting a market that will be stressed to pay for a ride, though.
    - foobarqux 12y ago
      The stress is not the stress of poverty but of deciding whether you want to spend $X dollars on a non-essential product (the buy/not-buy decision). As for groceries usually sales are advertised, in force for pre-defined period of time and, as you say, discounted from the price that is in force most of the time so that if you are surprised by a price it is in your favor.
- Sambdala 12y ago
  In the markets where they offer taxis as well, the app will even tell you that you can order a taxi and pay the regulated price instead of paying the surge pricing of UberX.
- michaelochurch 12y ago
  It's not transparent about how it models the supply curve and how much demand there is. If they didn't want to be hated, they'd establish enough data that one who wanted to could prove that it was fair market pricing (and that Uber wasn't making additional profit during surge pricing, silencing doubt about perverse incentives).
  - nemothekid 12y ago
    I honestly don't follow. I don't understand how their models would be useful to anyone except economics students. Even if they could say it was fair market pricing, I doubt complaining users who were too lazy/didn't care to read the "2x surge pricing" alert in big bold letters would be swayed by a white paper. Not to say I'm against transparency - it would most likely be incredibly rich data and give more power to drivers, but it seems Uber's trip up from a public point of view is that users feel cheated due to surge pricing. I'm having trouble understanding how one can feel cheated when the prices are laid before you - maybe Uber should replace "4x" with the estimated amount (of course then you'd have the complaining if the estimate is a little bit off).
martinald 12y ago
Nope, it does. It's £321 for a peak return, or £160.50 single. Or, alternatively, £459 rtn in first class ($767). However, an off peak return (dept after 9am, basically), and it drops to under £80 rtn.
- michaelochurch 12y ago
  Virgin Trains apparently offers £12.50 (one-way) service to London every 20 minutes. http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/go-by-train/manchester/ http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/go-by-train/manchester/
  - dasmoth 12y ago
    Have you actually seen a ticket at that price? The cheapest tickets I can see for today are £39.85 and for next Tuesday are £35.50. Presumably there are some £12.50 tickets available, but they're not easy to find (my understanding from folks who do more train travel to me is that tickets are released some number of months in advance and the cheapest price bins usually disappear pretty quickly). If you want to travel at peak times, the prices are much higher.

justincormack 12y ago

It does, if you want to buy a peak time ticket (eg 730am) tomorrow morning, I just looked it up. Europe may have a cheaper, faster and better rail service, but the UK is not party to the cheaper bit. You can buy cheap tickets, if you book in advance.

Marazan 12y ago

UK rail pricing is as complicated and as dynamic as airline pricing - $267 is well within the bounds of possibility for that route.

nemothekid 12y ago

What isn't transparent about surge pricing? The app straight up tells you "you will be paying more for this ride." If you don't like it, get a regular cab. I don't know why people act as if Uber is twisting their arm when it comes to surge pricing.

foobarqux 12y ago
It's transparent but variable pricing interferes with planning and requires repeated decision making, increasing stress. Imagine if grocery food doubled in price spontaneously several times a week.
- wutbrodo 12y ago
  No, imagine if normal grocery stores (or restaurants) were consistently out of stock at normal high-demand times (i.e. sacrificed predictable availability for predictable price), and a new grocery store opened up whose selling point was predictable availability instead of predictable pricing. It's absolute nonsense to categorically state that variable pricing interferes with planning more than variable availability does. In particular when the variable availability, fixed-price option is still an alternative.
  - foobarqux 12y ago
    I think the right solution is to fix an easy to remember price schedule in advance.
    - wutbrodo 12y ago
      All that does is shift Uber along the spectrum of predictable availability vs predictable price. You have the cognitive load of remembering/having to check a schedule, plus no guarantee of availability, since the schedule will be a highly imperfect predictor of demand, as well as not accounting for unforeseen surges in demand. That seems like it would be more stressful and a worse solution than either of the other options (taxis' fully fixed-price or Uber's fully-floating price), since you don't even know what part of the spectrum you'll end up on at any given point!
      - foobarqux 12y ago
        I assume demand in major cities doesn't really change that much so that the schedule is announced and updated very rarely (similar to public transportation). Yes, you would occasionally sacrifice some availability but I think people prefer that trade-off.
        nemothekid 12y ago
        If I wanted to sacrifice availability, I would use a Taxi. Uber, first and foremost, an on-demand ride flagging application. If Uber can't find me a ride then the app is broken - I lose any incentive to pay any surge pricing if I am going to get the same availability from Uber that I would get from a Taxi cab. Any savvy individual (who needs to be able to schedule their Uber rides in advance for whatever reason, instead of just using a Taxi to schedule rides like others have been doing for the last 50 years) will quickly learn when surge pricing is effect namely, Weekday mornings when people are going to work, Weekday evenings when people are leaving work, Weekend nights (sometimes), and any event where you can expect alot of people going home at the same time (concerts, sports games). In any case, and back to my original point, Uber doesn't force you to use their service and they are not the only game in town. If availability is more important predictability get an Uber, otherwise just get a Taxi. It doesn't make sense for Uber to become more like Taxis because people are unaware they have choices.
- nostrademons 12y ago
  Grocery food doubles in price all the time...it's called a sale. Soda goes for anywhere from $0.69/2liter to $1.29 at my local Safeway, for the same brands, just at different times. Groceries have just learned that people react better to high baseline prices and occasional labeled discounts than low baseline prices and occasional surcharges. Most people just get used to paying whatever the checkout bill is at the grocery. Or if money is tight, then yes, it does cause increased stress, but middle-class American society seemingly doesn't care about the routine stresses of being poor. UberX is not targeting a market that will be stressed to pay for a ride, though.
  - foobarqux 12y ago
    The stress is not the stress of poverty but of deciding whether you want to spend $X dollars on a non-essential product (the buy/not-buy decision). As for groceries usually sales are advertised, in force for pre-defined period of time and, as you say, discounted from the price that is in force most of the time so that if you are surprised by a price it is in your favor.
Sambdala 12y ago
In the markets where they offer taxis as well, the app will even tell you that you can order a taxi and pay the regulated price instead of paying the surge pricing of UberX.
michaelochurch 12y ago
It's not transparent about how it models the supply curve and how much demand there is. If they didn't want to be hated, they'd establish enough data that one who wanted to could prove that it was fair market pricing (and that Uber wasn't making additional profit during surge pricing, silencing doubt about perverse incentives).
- nemothekid 12y ago
  I honestly don't follow. I don't understand how their models would be useful to anyone except economics students. Even if they could say it was fair market pricing, I doubt complaining users who were too lazy/didn't care to read the "2x surge pricing" alert in big bold letters would be swayed by a white paper. Not to say I'm against transparency - it would most likely be incredibly rich data and give more power to drivers, but it seems Uber's trip up from a public point of view is that users feel cheated due to surge pricing. I'm having trouble understanding how one can feel cheated when the prices are laid before you - maybe Uber should replace "4x" with the estimated amount (of course then you'd have the complaining if the estimate is a little bit off).

martinald 12y ago

Nope, it does. It's £321 for a peak return, or £160.50 single. Or, alternatively, £459 rtn in first class ($767). However, an off peak return (dept after 9am, basically), and it drops to under £80 rtn.

michaelochurch 12y ago
Virgin Trains apparently offers £12.50 (one-way) service to London every 20 minutes. http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/go-by-train/manchester/ http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/go-by-train/manchester/
- dasmoth 12y ago
  Have you actually seen a ticket at that price? The cheapest tickets I can see for today are £39.85 and for next Tuesday are £35.50. Presumably there are some £12.50 tickets available, but they're not easy to find (my understanding from folks who do more train travel to me is that tickets are released some number of months in advance and the cheapest price bins usually disappear pretty quickly). If you want to travel at peak times, the prices are much higher.