4 ms·

I'd be pretty damn upset too if some other project got a lot of press for an announcement which included comments undermining the quality of my project. Sorry,

by ellyagg 17y ago

I'd be pretty damn upset too if some other project got a lot of press for an announcement which included comments undermining the quality of my project. Sorry, but if you're going to strongly imply that my project's ease of use and performance are subpar, them's fighting words.

pvg 17y ago
The comments were really in passing. 'Looked at it, wasn't for us', more or less. Perhaps them's fightin' words. But getting huffy about them probably helps your project even less, given they'd have otherwise gone largely unnoticed.
- rapind 17y ago
  And not responding to disparaging comments helps your project? I think he makes a pretty strong case in this article. It's a bit passive aggressive though, I.e. "hey I don't have any sore feelings about it, but they went about it like real jerks". Just come out and say they were real jerks without the "I don't have sore feelings" crap. We can tell you didn't like it, and I'm completely OK with that. I think the mindset that created Tornado is one that a lot of us share as coders. If there's an existing framework to do something but it's messy in your opinion, and the job you need to do is simple enough and not covered very well by that existing framework, well then often it costs a lot less in terms of investment to build it yourself. Then you get exactly what you need too, and nothing more (which increases complexity). It worked out for them too! I also think twisted could market itself better, but that takes effort that could be spent elsewhere, and I doubt they're all that interested. We'll see.
  - encoderer 17y ago
    Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And not everything is a cold impersonal engineering decision. Programmers are people (really! we are!) and people like greenfields and blank canvases and fresh starts. And I'd also submit that a team of talented developers almost certainly will make a superior product if they have the ability to use the original as a reference and resource. The saying "Pioneers get the arrows, settlers get the land" comes to mind.
    - rapind 17y ago
      Agreed. Greenfield projects are far more enjoyable, and you tend to learn more. Obviously we can't always do that and succeed, but they did well enough in this case. Preferably they'd go easier on the remarks about existing open source frameworks though.
- dlsspy 17y ago
  "In general, it seems like Twisted is full of demo-quality stuff, but most of the protocols have tons of bugs." http://bret.appspot.com/entry/tornado-web-server#comment-16314810 http://bret.appspot.com/entry/tornado-web-server#comment-163... That's not "wasn't for us" that's a very vague comment insulting the project. If that were true, I think it is fair to at least describe what they were -- or the nature of them -- or something.
encoderer 17y ago
Ok, but did you click thru to that listserv thread here https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/brisa-develop/2009-August/thread.html https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/brisa-develop/2009-August... ? I'm not familiar with the project or this guy in particular, but man, he seems awfully abrasive. Sarcastic and bitter came to mind as I read them. I have no dog in this fight, and one could fairly assume that these 2 discussions are just not his best moments. But from what I've seen...
- mcantelon 17y ago
  The three emails I can read by clicking through to that link don't seem overly abrasive.

by ellyagg 17y ago

pvg 17y ago

The comments were really in passing. 'Looked at it, wasn't for us', more or less. Perhaps them's fightin' words. But getting huffy about them probably helps your project even less, given they'd have otherwise gone largely unnoticed.

rapind 17y ago
And not responding to disparaging comments helps your project? I think he makes a pretty strong case in this article. It's a bit passive aggressive though, I.e. "hey I don't have any sore feelings about it, but they went about it like real jerks". Just come out and say they were real jerks without the "I don't have sore feelings" crap. We can tell you didn't like it, and I'm completely OK with that. I think the mindset that created Tornado is one that a lot of us share as coders. If there's an existing framework to do something but it's messy in your opinion, and the job you need to do is simple enough and not covered very well by that existing framework, well then often it costs a lot less in terms of investment to build it yourself. Then you get exactly what you need too, and nothing more (which increases complexity). It worked out for them too! I also think twisted could market itself better, but that takes effort that could be spent elsewhere, and I doubt they're all that interested. We'll see.
- encoderer 17y ago
  Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And not everything is a cold impersonal engineering decision. Programmers are people (really! we are!) and people like greenfields and blank canvases and fresh starts. And I'd also submit that a team of talented developers almost certainly will make a superior product if they have the ability to use the original as a reference and resource. The saying "Pioneers get the arrows, settlers get the land" comes to mind.
  - rapind 17y ago
    Agreed. Greenfield projects are far more enjoyable, and you tend to learn more. Obviously we can't always do that and succeed, but they did well enough in this case. Preferably they'd go easier on the remarks about existing open source frameworks though.
dlsspy 17y ago
"In general, it seems like Twisted is full of demo-quality stuff, but most of the protocols have tons of bugs." http://bret.appspot.com/entry/tornado-web-server#comment-16314810 http://bret.appspot.com/entry/tornado-web-server#comment-163... That's not "wasn't for us" that's a very vague comment insulting the project. If that were true, I think it is fair to at least describe what they were -- or the nature of them -- or something.

encoderer 17y ago

Ok, but did you click thru to that listserv thread here https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/brisa-develop/2009-August/thread.html https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/brisa-develop/2009-August... ? I'm not familiar with the project or this guy in particular, but man, he seems awfully abrasive. Sarcastic and bitter came to mind as I read them. I have no dog in this fight, and one could fairly assume that these 2 discussions are just not his best moments. But from what I've seen...

mcantelon 17y ago
The three emails I can read by clicking through to that link don't seem overly abrasive.