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I'm actually quite hurt by this comment. Firstly, I have worked for the past three years as a software developer. I've had to deliver things to a manager, figu

I'm actually quite hurt by this comment. Firstly, I have worked for the past three years as a software developer. I've had to deliver things to a manager, figure out exactly what a client wants, and work collaboratively. I think that I've at least had a taste of the "real world". Secondly, the idea that I lack some kind of mental capability to "understand or imagine what is possible outside of the school" is deeply flawed, and frankly unfounded. In fact, the condescension that arises from this statement is exactly the kind of attitude towards children that discourages them from taking risks and exploring independently. I hope the next time you talk to or meet a 16 year old, you don't assume that they lack any ability to understand the "real world".

learc83 12y ago
>I hope the next time you talk to or meet a 16 year old, you don't assume that they lack any ability to understand the "real world". Most 16 year olds in the developed world do lack an ability to understand the "real world" (by that I mean the adult experience) because 16 year olds lack adult responsibility by default. Having a part time job is not the same as working to provide food and shelter for you and your family. At 16 your parents shield you from the freedoms and consequences that come with being an adult, and with no experience of those freedoms and consequences, you can't really internalize what it means to be an adult. In addition, the human brain doesn't fully develop until around 25, so your judgment at 16 is fundamentally flawed. There's nothing wrong with being 16, but in 10 years you'll look back and laugh at 90% of what you know right now.
- samirmenon 12y ago
  Absolutely. I hope that every year of my life, I look back, and laugh at the things I 'knew' 10 years ago. Is it the same for you? The oft-repeated idea of an "underdeveloped" teenage brain is a bit old. Scientific American did a piece on it in 2007. (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-teen-brain/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-te...)
  - learc83 12y ago
    >Absolutely. I hope that every year of my life, I look back, and laugh at the things I 'knew' 10 years ago. Is it the same for you? To an extent yes, but that slows down the older you get. >The oft-repeated idea of an "underdeveloped" teenage brain is a bit old. Scientific American did a piece on it in 2007. That article itself is outdated. There are numerous studies done since then that support my assertion. Here's a few articles. 2011 http://www.edinformatics.com/news/teenage_brains.htm http://www.edinformatics.com/news/teenage_brains.htm 2011 http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/10/teenage-brains/dobbs-text http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/10/teenage-brains/dob... http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141164708 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1411647... http://phys.org/news/2010-12-brain-fully-mature-30s-40s.html http://phys.org/news/2010-12-brain-fully-mature-30s-40s.html http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390443713704577601532208760746 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000087239639044371370... http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124119468 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1241194...
  - xorcist 12y ago
    > I hope that every year of my life, I look back, and laugh at the things I 'knew' 10 years ago. You know what? I never did do that, and I'm starting to think I never will. There may be many 20-year-olds that "knows" many things (in the same scare quotes you indended), but there are a lot of 30- and 40-year-olds who do that as well. I have a growing suspicion these may all be the same people...
- glenra 12y ago
  > In addition, the human brain doesn't fully develop until around 25, so your judgment at 16 is fundamentally flawed. Even if the premise is true, that seems an unreasonable conclusion. On what possible basis could one describe the judgement of a pre-25 brain as "fundamentally flawed"? What makes you consider an old, decrepit, no-longer-developing brain optimal? "Finished growing" doesn't mean "best", it just means "finished growing". Jewish law considers a man "an adult" at 13, a woman "an adult" at 12. 16-year-olds are perfectly capable of adult behavior, regardless of the degree to which we choose to coddle them in the modern era. When we treat kids as rational beings capable of mature reasoning, they are more likely to act as such.
  - learc83 12y ago
    Specifically the undeveloped part of the brain, is believed to be the part that evaluates risk. Meaning that 16 year olds are less likely to account accurately for the consequences of their behavior. There are advantages to this for society and for the individual teenager. But there are disadvantages as well--they are more likely to commit crime, are easier to convince to go off to a foreign land and fight in a war, and take unnecessary risks when driving. The inability of teenagers to fully comprehend the risks and consequences of their actions leads me to label their judgment "fundamentally flawed." >When we treat kids as rational beings capable of mature reasoning, they are more likely to act as such. I agree to an extent. But there are many circumstances where this isn't the case. In a situation where the consequences of failure won't destroy the life of a teenager and those around him, sure treat him (or her) like an adult. But there are times when parents have to step in, exercise their authority, and protect them (and those around them) from themselves.
    - glenra 12y ago
      > Specifically the undeveloped part of the brain, is believed to be the part that evaluates risk. Meaning that 16 year olds are less likely to account accurately for the consequences of their behavior. Again, you seem to be assuming that when the brain STOPS developing, it does so because it has achieved perfection. It is pretty easy to support the view that adults are far TOO risk-averse, too unwilling to let teens take chances that would benefit them. To claim adults account "accurately" is going a bridge too far. Adults account for risk "differently" and do so in a way that other adults are likely to agree with, but that doesn't make it more "accurate".
OmarIsmail 12y ago
Doing all of this at 16 how do you compare to your peers? Are you atypical or ordinary? If ordinary then maybe things have changed in the 15 years since I was in high school. And if you're responsible for your own major bills and expenses like housing, food, clothes and transportation then even more kudos to you. I'd be extremely surprised if that was the typical situation of an average 16 yo American.

learc83 12y ago

>I hope the next time you talk to or meet a 16 year old, you don't assume that they lack any ability to understand the "real world". Most 16 year olds in the developed world do lack an ability to understand the "real world" (by that I mean the adult experience) because 16 year olds lack adult responsibility by default. Having a part time job is not the same as working to provide food and shelter for you and your family. At 16 your parents shield you from the freedoms and consequences that come with being an adult, and with no experience of those freedoms and consequences, you can't really internalize what it means to be an adult. In addition, the human brain doesn't fully develop until around 25, so your judgment at 16 is fundamentally flawed. There's nothing wrong with being 16, but in 10 years you'll look back and laugh at 90% of what you know right now.

samirmenon 12y ago
Absolutely. I hope that every year of my life, I look back, and laugh at the things I 'knew' 10 years ago. Is it the same for you? The oft-repeated idea of an "underdeveloped" teenage brain is a bit old. Scientific American did a piece on it in 2007. (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-teen-brain/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-te...)
- learc83 12y ago
  >Absolutely. I hope that every year of my life, I look back, and laugh at the things I 'knew' 10 years ago. Is it the same for you? To an extent yes, but that slows down the older you get. >The oft-repeated idea of an "underdeveloped" teenage brain is a bit old. Scientific American did a piece on it in 2007. That article itself is outdated. There are numerous studies done since then that support my assertion. Here's a few articles. 2011 http://www.edinformatics.com/news/teenage_brains.htm http://www.edinformatics.com/news/teenage_brains.htm 2011 http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/10/teenage-brains/dobbs-text http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/10/teenage-brains/dob... http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141164708 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1411647... http://phys.org/news/2010-12-brain-fully-mature-30s-40s.html http://phys.org/news/2010-12-brain-fully-mature-30s-40s.html http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390443713704577601532208760746 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000087239639044371370... http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124119468 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1241194...
- xorcist 12y ago
  > I hope that every year of my life, I look back, and laugh at the things I 'knew' 10 years ago. You know what? I never did do that, and I'm starting to think I never will. There may be many 20-year-olds that "knows" many things (in the same scare quotes you indended), but there are a lot of 30- and 40-year-olds who do that as well. I have a growing suspicion these may all be the same people...
glenra 12y ago
> In addition, the human brain doesn't fully develop until around 25, so your judgment at 16 is fundamentally flawed. Even if the premise is true, that seems an unreasonable conclusion. On what possible basis could one describe the judgement of a pre-25 brain as "fundamentally flawed"? What makes you consider an old, decrepit, no-longer-developing brain optimal? "Finished growing" doesn't mean "best", it just means "finished growing". Jewish law considers a man "an adult" at 13, a woman "an adult" at 12. 16-year-olds are perfectly capable of adult behavior, regardless of the degree to which we choose to coddle them in the modern era. When we treat kids as rational beings capable of mature reasoning, they are more likely to act as such.
- learc83 12y ago
  Specifically the undeveloped part of the brain, is believed to be the part that evaluates risk. Meaning that 16 year olds are less likely to account accurately for the consequences of their behavior. There are advantages to this for society and for the individual teenager. But there are disadvantages as well--they are more likely to commit crime, are easier to convince to go off to a foreign land and fight in a war, and take unnecessary risks when driving. The inability of teenagers to fully comprehend the risks and consequences of their actions leads me to label their judgment "fundamentally flawed." >When we treat kids as rational beings capable of mature reasoning, they are more likely to act as such. I agree to an extent. But there are many circumstances where this isn't the case. In a situation where the consequences of failure won't destroy the life of a teenager and those around him, sure treat him (or her) like an adult. But there are times when parents have to step in, exercise their authority, and protect them (and those around them) from themselves.
  - glenra 12y ago
    > Specifically the undeveloped part of the brain, is believed to be the part that evaluates risk. Meaning that 16 year olds are less likely to account accurately for the consequences of their behavior. Again, you seem to be assuming that when the brain STOPS developing, it does so because it has achieved perfection. It is pretty easy to support the view that adults are far TOO risk-averse, too unwilling to let teens take chances that would benefit them. To claim adults account "accurately" is going a bridge too far. Adults account for risk "differently" and do so in a way that other adults are likely to agree with, but that doesn't make it more "accurate".

OmarIsmail 12y ago

Doing all of this at 16 how do you compare to your peers? Are you atypical or ordinary? If ordinary then maybe things have changed in the 15 years since I was in high school. And if you're responsible for your own major bills and expenses like housing, food, clothes and transportation then even more kudos to you. I'd be extremely surprised if that was the typical situation of an average 16 yo American.