4 ms·

Well they pretty much got Crimea, don't they ?

• hbbio 12y ago
  Crimea also has been historically part of Russia/USSR until 1954. (I'm French, just stating)
  • adamnemecek 12y ago
    Yeah, so?
  • leoc 12y ago
    Germany had similar claims on some of that land it grabbed and might have been able to hold on to: notably the Sudetenland. So Russia's historical claim on the Crimea doesn't really break the analogy.
  • Zuider 12y ago
    Alsace and Lorraine have been historically part of the Germanic world (though it is quite true that the populations preferred to remain French). Can I take it that you won't have strong grounds to object if Merkel sends a few divisions over the border?
  • krzyk 12y ago
    Not quite. It was part of Russia from 1783 till 1918 (or so) then it was Part of USSR. But let's make it 1954 as you wrote, so it gives 171 years. Before 1783 Crimea was part of Ottoman Empire (Crimean Khanate), from about 1449. That makes 334 years. And before that Mongols ruled there from about 200 years. And even before it belonged partly to Kiev Rus' and Bizantium for another 300 years. So basing solely on the years (assuming that what you mean by historically) it looks like Crimea should go back to Turkey or split between Ukraine and Greece, surly not to Russia.
  • ajuc 12y ago
    Kalinigrad was Prussian. L'viv and Vilnius were Polish. Szczecin and Wrocław were German. That was only 80 years ago. 100 years ago there was no Poland, and no USSR. These cities changed hands every 50 years or less for last few centuries. It's useless to argue about these things. Basically whole C&E Europe is a huge barrel of powder. If you start to do this stuff (this is MINE because history) the powder will explode. That's why nobody (except Russia) do it. Even the worst nationalists in Poland don't actually want L'viv or Vilnius. Even though L'viv was a very important city for Polish culture and still 80 years later there are songs about how great a city Lwów was (French wouldn't understand, you only have one city ;) ). It was Polish San Francisco, and we don't want it back. That's because we know that we are only safe because we're past the WW2 era of petty nationalisms. We've learnt our lesson. Putin doesn't care - he knows EU is not united enough to react, so he basically replays Hitler 1938 strategy and he goes away with it. French traditionally don't want to die for Danzig(Donetsk this time), they even sell weapons to Putin. Great job, guys. It's very frustrating to see it in real life and see how useless and clueless western politicians are. Like nobody learnt anything from WW2.
  • shitgoose 12y ago
    So was Ukraine:) Part of Russia/USSR until 1991. Crimea is a special case - it was always assumed to be "Russian" even under Ukrainian rule. Ukrainians themselves never fully considered Crimea as their own. That is why it fell off so quickly and easily. Historically it has been part of Russia, true, but more importantly is never stopped being "Russian" in terms of self identity (unlike Lwow or Volyn for example, that were Ukrainianized in a rather brutal way).