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I agree with you that this argument has little to do with conservatism vs. liberalism, but to state "Conservatism doesn't send people to concentration camps" is

I agree with you that this argument has little to do with conservatism vs. liberalism, but to state "Conservatism doesn't send people to concentration camps" is ignoring some glaring realities, unless you want to be really selective about the definition of a concentration camp. Is Gitmo a concentration camp? How about Manus Island? Azouli Prison? These "detention centers" are full of people put there by both conservatives and self-labelled "liberals". Left / Right, Conservative / Liberal, etc. don't really matter if the people in charge are just aligning themselves with these ideologies for political gain. I think you'll find that the politically opposed leaders of the world have more in common with each-other than they do with the average members of the populations they represent.

vixen99 12y ago
You should detail the logical relationships between theses and people acting on them because -isms don't send anyone anywhere, people do. To say they do without offering a road map is loose thinking.
- josephlord 12y ago
  Stalinism??? More seriously the claim was xxxism doesn't send people to concentration camps, this was responded to by counter examples. This is a perfectly reasonable response and disproof of the claim that xxxism doesn't send people to concentration camps. It was not a standalone claim that xxxism leads to concentration camps which may need to be supported as you wish. I know the ideology wasn't xxx but exactly what it is isn't important to the point I was making.
- Intermernet 12y ago
  Yes, just like guns don't kill people, people do. Especially people who believe in -isms. People justify their actions with -isms and theses and society often accepts those justifications. You can always say the -ism isn't to blame, because the person would have probably found another suitable -ism to justify their actions anyway. The mistake a lot of people make is assuming that political leaders actually believe in ideologies (-isms), rather than assuming they just manipulate them for their own gain. Most politicians will flip-flop on any stance if their constituents demand it.
- DCKing 12y ago
  It is nonsense to say that. If you think "Nazism sent people to concentration camps" is not a valid thing to say, then replace "Nazism" with "Jainism [0]" or "postmodernism". Nazism entails the belief that a group of humans is inferior to other humans and that they can be destroyed. The arrow "someone is Nazi" -> "someone sends people to concentration camps" follows from their ideology. It would be absurd to say that Jainists or postmodernists send people to concentration camps, because nothing about their beliefs suggests a destruction of other people! Saying that people's -isms "don't do anything" is dangerously morally relativist. Don't pretend that meaningful things cannot be said about the consequences Nazist beliefs might have. -isms are an important categorization of what kind of software people are running on their brains. It is useful in distinguishing what kind of destructive behaviour that software can result in. [0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism
deciplex 12y ago
Gitmo isn't a concentration camp because there is no 'concentration'. That is, the Gitmo prison is clearly not part of an effort to take some population of people and stick them all in one place. Nominally everyone there is a prisoner of war - they are not there because they a member of some Afghan minority, or homosexual or disabled or whatever the hell else. Neither is it a death camp, although it seems most everyone still there, will die there. Probably the most accurate label is that it's an internment camp.

vixen99 12y ago

You should detail the logical relationships between theses and people acting on them because -isms don't send anyone anywhere, people do. To say they do without offering a road map is loose thinking.

josephlord 12y ago
Stalinism??? More seriously the claim was xxxism doesn't send people to concentration camps, this was responded to by counter examples. This is a perfectly reasonable response and disproof of the claim that xxxism doesn't send people to concentration camps. It was not a standalone claim that xxxism leads to concentration camps which may need to be supported as you wish. I know the ideology wasn't xxx but exactly what it is isn't important to the point I was making.
Intermernet 12y ago
Yes, just like guns don't kill people, people do. Especially people who believe in -isms. People justify their actions with -isms and theses and society often accepts those justifications. You can always say the -ism isn't to blame, because the person would have probably found another suitable -ism to justify their actions anyway. The mistake a lot of people make is assuming that political leaders actually believe in ideologies (-isms), rather than assuming they just manipulate them for their own gain. Most politicians will flip-flop on any stance if their constituents demand it.
DCKing 12y ago
It is nonsense to say that. If you think "Nazism sent people to concentration camps" is not a valid thing to say, then replace "Nazism" with "Jainism [0]" or "postmodernism". Nazism entails the belief that a group of humans is inferior to other humans and that they can be destroyed. The arrow "someone is Nazi" -> "someone sends people to concentration camps" follows from their ideology. It would be absurd to say that Jainists or postmodernists send people to concentration camps, because nothing about their beliefs suggests a destruction of other people! Saying that people's -isms "don't do anything" is dangerously morally relativist. Don't pretend that meaningful things cannot be said about the consequences Nazist beliefs might have. -isms are an important categorization of what kind of software people are running on their brains. It is useful in distinguishing what kind of destructive behaviour that software can result in. [0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism

deciplex 12y ago

Gitmo isn't a concentration camp because there is no 'concentration'. That is, the Gitmo prison is clearly not part of an effort to take some population of people and stick them all in one place. Nominally everyone there is a prisoner of war - they are not there because they a member of some Afghan minority, or homosexual or disabled or whatever the hell else. Neither is it a death camp, although it seems most everyone still there, will die there. Probably the most accurate label is that it's an internment camp.