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It's easy to forget how profound the power vacuum was in Weimar Germany. The roughly Christian Socialists ( congruent with the Fabians in England, although that

It's easy to forget how profound the power vacuum was in Weimar Germany. The roughly Christian Socialists ( congruent with the Fabians in England, although that's not the term of art ) were a relatively stable influence in Germany. Von Hindenburg was roughly of that skein. The Communists were deadly violent and Stalin was a significant external threat.

toyg 12y ago
Von Hindenburg was certainly no moderate socialist of any kind. He was nominated exactly because he was seen as a link to the previous (aristocratic and Bismarckian) past without being too virulently anti-Socialist -- a safe pair of hands, so to speak, but certainly not a "christian socialist" of any sort. In fact, his suspicion and eventual (mis)treatment of the SPD was one of the causes of Hitler's rise to power.
- ArkyBeagle 12y ago
  Well, it made sense while I was typing it :) I think you're probably right because "socialist" had a different meaning in a post-Bismarck Germany. If we consider what Fabian Socialism meant in England maybe. Even then the makeup of the Fabians was much more literary and not at all military. That doesn't work, either. I'd have been better off identifying him as a Christian Democrat although that lacks something. He was one of the last of the Junkers Prussian caste to rule, and that really doesn't compare to much outside Germany and then only before WWII. Of what came after, I'd say the CDU is closest to what von Hindenburg stood for, although it's still a stretch.
yk 12y ago
Hindenburg was certainly not a socialist. He was a conservative nationalist, for 1920th values of conservative. That is, he wanted to reestablish monarchy and had the interests of the Prussian Junkers at his heart. In addition he got his job because he was a WWI war hero.
- ArkyBeagle 12y ago
  I'd never seen that he wanted to reestablish the monarchy - presumably the Kaiser Wilhelm line? Some of the leftovers from (Queen Victoria's) Prince Albert's line? Interesting. Yeah, that's by-$DEITY about as conservative as it gets. I dunno then - what do you call post-Bismarck welfare-state Germany? It was certainly cradle-to-grave, something we now identify with socialism. And yes - Bismarck was generally considered a conservative as well. But the entire idea of Germany was basically... uh... racial. So it's a racial-ist socialism. Don't look at me like that, it's was their doing :) 19th century, phrenology, all that. The Wikipedia page refers to Bismarck as a "revolutionary conservative". Ooh, my head hurts now :)

toyg 12y ago

Von Hindenburg was certainly no moderate socialist of any kind. He was nominated exactly because he was seen as a link to the previous (aristocratic and Bismarckian) past without being too virulently anti-Socialist -- a safe pair of hands, so to speak, but certainly not a "christian socialist" of any sort. In fact, his suspicion and eventual (mis)treatment of the SPD was one of the causes of Hitler's rise to power.

ArkyBeagle 12y ago
Well, it made sense while I was typing it :) I think you're probably right because "socialist" had a different meaning in a post-Bismarck Germany. If we consider what Fabian Socialism meant in England maybe. Even then the makeup of the Fabians was much more literary and not at all military. That doesn't work, either. I'd have been better off identifying him as a Christian Democrat although that lacks something. He was one of the last of the Junkers Prussian caste to rule, and that really doesn't compare to much outside Germany and then only before WWII. Of what came after, I'd say the CDU is closest to what von Hindenburg stood for, although it's still a stretch.

yk 12y ago

Hindenburg was certainly not a socialist. He was a conservative nationalist, for 1920th values of conservative. That is, he wanted to reestablish monarchy and had the interests of the Prussian Junkers at his heart. In addition he got his job because he was a WWI war hero.

ArkyBeagle 12y ago
I'd never seen that he wanted to reestablish the monarchy - presumably the Kaiser Wilhelm line? Some of the leftovers from (Queen Victoria's) Prince Albert's line? Interesting. Yeah, that's by-$DEITY about as conservative as it gets. I dunno then - what do you call post-Bismarck welfare-state Germany? It was certainly cradle-to-grave, something we now identify with socialism. And yes - Bismarck was generally considered a conservative as well. But the entire idea of Germany was basically... uh... racial. So it's a racial-ist socialism. Don't look at me like that, it's was their doing :) 19th century, phrenology, all that. The Wikipedia page refers to Bismarck as a "revolutionary conservative". Ooh, my head hurts now :)