5 ms·

This is really interesting. I think I know the answer. I live in Louisiana and I noticed a majority of residents grew up here, had family that grew up here, an

This is really interesting. I think I know the answer. I live in Louisiana and I noticed a majority of residents grew up here, had family that grew up here, and have kids that are all growing up here and everyone knows each other, all their kids know each other,and there's very strong community values and regional pride. So my theory is that happiness is tied to roots and community more than good economy, good education, good employment prospects, good future for your kids, low crime, and all of the other things LA isn't really strong on. I would like to see the happiness research compared to migration statistics.

refurb 12y ago
I think that's a fair hypotheses. The movement of people in and out of cities results in residents having far few bonds with their fellow human being. I think there is a decent amount of evidence that "connectedness" contributes to happiness.
- mpyne 12y ago
  That's one of the reasons I've started thinking recently that things like churches are useful in principle independent of any spiritual benefit. I've often wondered about the stories I'd occasionally read about agnostics or atheists who attend church on purpose, that hypothesis would go some way to explaining that behavior.
  - Dewie 12y ago
    It seems like that in some cultures people need clear excuses or pretences to be together with other people (atheists going to church looks like a pretense, i.e. the church and faith itself is not interesting, but the congregation is). Then religious people might very well become more sociable and communal than non-religious people, since they have a life-long activity and community to engage with. Would it be crazy to, umm, just drop the pretence and hang out with people? To strike up a conversation with a stranger with which you have apparently no activity, institution or familial bond in common without being looked at like you're a weirdo? Though I guess human interactions are so complex and subtle that it might be a lost cause to try to drop the pretence, sometimes. But maybe some cultures do this a lot, for all I know.
    - mpyne 12y ago
      Certainly some cultures need less pretense, but then being social in public in America (where the things you list simply aren't that weird) is not quite the same as being part of a long-lived communal social group. Certainly I don't think we've abandoned social groups, but I do think they've been uprooted from the geographic association they once were required to have. Even at university it's quite possible to sit away from people and just stare at your phone or computer screen for hours. Nowadays it seems you practically have to fight to form strong groups that require in-person presence and dedicated time.
      - rdtsc 12y ago
        Not having lived in such smaller tighter knit communities, some people "don't even know what they are missing" so to speak. In other words, it is a totally alien experience. The "village" though has its dark side and that is everyone is in everyone's business. That goes directly in the face of American individualism. There is also "social" and "social". That is "social" in a context of a hobby or a club. Or it is programming club, or samba dancing club, or painting class at the local art centre. One can go to those yet still keep most of their non-group-specific life private. Like for example one might attend the local ham radio club and everyone would know they how many words per minute in morse code one can type but they might not be aware that the person's wife just died and they are about to lose the house and so on. Churches and tight knit communities with all their downsides sort of force and reveal stuff at that depth and are also able to influence it (for better or for worse).
  - BrandonMarc 12y ago
    Lots of truth to that. There's a reason many atheists have started holding their own "church" services, on Sundays. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21319945 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21319945
  - rayiner 12y ago
    My religious beliefs are . . . in flux, but my wife is a very committed Christian and I've started going to church with her. I have to say its pretty great. A couple of folks volunteer to watch the kids while everyone else listens to a nice service and has lunch. I think from the point of view of children it has some larger socialization benefits. Not just because there is a larger community of people keeping an eye on them, but because it can offer an alternative and potentially friendlier venue for socialization than the somewhat Darwinian environment of school.
    - selmnoo 12y ago
      > My religious beliefs are . . . in flux That's.. interesting, I always thought of you as a stern atheist. May I ask you to elaborate how you came to a different position from your past (presumably) atheistic views?
      - rayiner 12y ago
        I continue to find it difficult to entertain the invocation of the supernatural. But I've come to appreciate much of the substance of Christianity beyond the metaphysics. In the past, I used to think "Christianity - metaphysics" was just "be a good person secular humanism" but it's quite different.
        JoeAltmaier 12y ago
        Remember most Christians (most anybody in any religion) are just there for the coffee. As my Minister used to say, There are pillars and there are caterpillars. We know who the pillars of our local Church are. The Caterpillars just visit on Sunday; they crawl in and they crawl out.
        tptacek 12y ago
        There's also David Foster Wallace's take on religion, which is that you can take it or leave it, but the alternatives might "eat you alive": http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB122178211966454607 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB122178211966454607
- zkar 12y ago
  Does connectedness through social media like facebook, twitter, e-mail or even calling through phones contribute to happiness?
kourt 12y ago
An important corollary is that "the happiness of current residents" may negatively correlated to "the happiness of new migrants" (who won't have the deep family roots). Therefore, using this research to plan a relocation may be counterproductive.
ryanmarsh 12y ago
I'm a little jealous of my friends in Louisiana. They have a few acres and have 3 generations of family on it. They live modestly (although not poor) but they're very close and happy.
- nickthemagicman 12y ago
  Don't be. I'll leave for YEARS at a time and return home to Louisiana and everyone is still in the same place, doing the same thing, with the same people. And their kids will be taking their place. It's comforting in a way but hometown roots are also bondage.
selimthegrim 12y ago
I left Portland for New Orleans two months ago (I originate from Cleveland) and I couldn't be happier. Without question there is a more cohesive sense of community. People get offended in my neighborhood when I walk past them without saying hello. I barely knew my neighbors in North Portland except when we were banding together to keep tabs on the local heroin dealer ( and that was the most I'd spoken to neighbors compared to the three other places I'd lived in the area) Now only if I could grow royal poinciana here consistently.... My friends in SF (Noe Valley) don't know their neighbors at all and have no plans to change that state of affairs. I find this unconscionable.
- onedev 12y ago
  Nextdoor.com is trying to bring back that sense of community that you talk about. You should give it a go.
  - Chronic29 12y ago
    Or we can maintain the status quo by not using that website.
- nickthemagicman 12y ago
  Welcome to NOLA! Come for the fun stay for the alcoholism. Just joking. It's a great place...more or less. You can grow some beautiful Wisteria or Sweet Olive if that would satisfy your green thumb.

refurb 12y ago

I think that's a fair hypotheses. The movement of people in and out of cities results in residents having far few bonds with their fellow human being. I think there is a decent amount of evidence that "connectedness" contributes to happiness.

mpyne 12y ago
That's one of the reasons I've started thinking recently that things like churches are useful in principle independent of any spiritual benefit. I've often wondered about the stories I'd occasionally read about agnostics or atheists who attend church on purpose, that hypothesis would go some way to explaining that behavior.
- Dewie 12y ago
  It seems like that in some cultures people need clear excuses or pretences to be together with other people (atheists going to church looks like a pretense, i.e. the church and faith itself is not interesting, but the congregation is). Then religious people might very well become more sociable and communal than non-religious people, since they have a life-long activity and community to engage with. Would it be crazy to, umm, just drop the pretence and hang out with people? To strike up a conversation with a stranger with which you have apparently no activity, institution or familial bond in common without being looked at like you're a weirdo? Though I guess human interactions are so complex and subtle that it might be a lost cause to try to drop the pretence, sometimes. But maybe some cultures do this a lot, for all I know.
  - mpyne 12y ago
    Certainly some cultures need less pretense, but then being social in public in America (where the things you list simply aren't that weird) is not quite the same as being part of a long-lived communal social group. Certainly I don't think we've abandoned social groups, but I do think they've been uprooted from the geographic association they once were required to have. Even at university it's quite possible to sit away from people and just stare at your phone or computer screen for hours. Nowadays it seems you practically have to fight to form strong groups that require in-person presence and dedicated time.
    - rdtsc 12y ago
      Not having lived in such smaller tighter knit communities, some people "don't even know what they are missing" so to speak. In other words, it is a totally alien experience. The "village" though has its dark side and that is everyone is in everyone's business. That goes directly in the face of American individualism. There is also "social" and "social". That is "social" in a context of a hobby or a club. Or it is programming club, or samba dancing club, or painting class at the local art centre. One can go to those yet still keep most of their non-group-specific life private. Like for example one might attend the local ham radio club and everyone would know they how many words per minute in morse code one can type but they might not be aware that the person's wife just died and they are about to lose the house and so on. Churches and tight knit communities with all their downsides sort of force and reveal stuff at that depth and are also able to influence it (for better or for worse).
- BrandonMarc 12y ago
  Lots of truth to that. There's a reason many atheists have started holding their own "church" services, on Sundays. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21319945 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21319945
- rayiner 12y ago
  My religious beliefs are . . . in flux, but my wife is a very committed Christian and I've started going to church with her. I have to say its pretty great. A couple of folks volunteer to watch the kids while everyone else listens to a nice service and has lunch. I think from the point of view of children it has some larger socialization benefits. Not just because there is a larger community of people keeping an eye on them, but because it can offer an alternative and potentially friendlier venue for socialization than the somewhat Darwinian environment of school.
  - selmnoo 12y ago
    > My religious beliefs are . . . in flux That's.. interesting, I always thought of you as a stern atheist. May I ask you to elaborate how you came to a different position from your past (presumably) atheistic views?
    - rayiner 12y ago
      I continue to find it difficult to entertain the invocation of the supernatural. But I've come to appreciate much of the substance of Christianity beyond the metaphysics. In the past, I used to think "Christianity - metaphysics" was just "be a good person secular humanism" but it's quite different.
      - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
        Remember most Christians (most anybody in any religion) are just there for the coffee. As my Minister used to say, There are pillars and there are caterpillars. We know who the pillars of our local Church are. The Caterpillars just visit on Sunday; they crawl in and they crawl out.
      - tptacek 12y ago
        There's also David Foster Wallace's take on religion, which is that you can take it or leave it, but the alternatives might "eat you alive": http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB122178211966454607 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB122178211966454607
zkar 12y ago
Does connectedness through social media like facebook, twitter, e-mail or even calling through phones contribute to happiness?

kourt 12y ago

An important corollary is that "the happiness of current residents" may negatively correlated to "the happiness of new migrants" (who won't have the deep family roots). Therefore, using this research to plan a relocation may be counterproductive.

ryanmarsh 12y ago

I'm a little jealous of my friends in Louisiana. They have a few acres and have 3 generations of family on it. They live modestly (although not poor) but they're very close and happy.

nickthemagicman 12y ago
Don't be. I'll leave for YEARS at a time and return home to Louisiana and everyone is still in the same place, doing the same thing, with the same people. And their kids will be taking their place. It's comforting in a way but hometown roots are also bondage.

selimthegrim 12y ago

I left Portland for New Orleans two months ago (I originate from Cleveland) and I couldn't be happier. Without question there is a more cohesive sense of community. People get offended in my neighborhood when I walk past them without saying hello. I barely knew my neighbors in North Portland except when we were banding together to keep tabs on the local heroin dealer ( and that was the most I'd spoken to neighbors compared to the three other places I'd lived in the area) Now only if I could grow royal poinciana here consistently.... My friends in SF (Noe Valley) don't know their neighbors at all and have no plans to change that state of affairs. I find this unconscionable.

onedev 12y ago
Nextdoor.com is trying to bring back that sense of community that you talk about. You should give it a go.
- Chronic29 12y ago
  Or we can maintain the status quo by not using that website.
nickthemagicman 12y ago
Welcome to NOLA! Come for the fun stay for the alcoholism. Just joking. It's a great place...more or less. You can grow some beautiful Wisteria or Sweet Olive if that would satisfy your green thumb.