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When they installed license-plate scanners on bridges, government buildings, and roaming police cars, there was initially the claim that this system wouldn't be

When they installed license-plate scanners on bridges, government buildings, and roaming police cars, there was initially the claim that this system wouldn't be used to create a giant centralized database tracking everybody's movement. We all know how that turned out. And now with these airplane-style black boxes inside cars (the manufacturers have their own black boxes, too) ... I'm sure the NSA, FBI, CIA, etc would never start drinking from this firehose of data, and mis-use it. I'm sure Google, Yahoo, Bing, Amazon, etc would find this info useful, too ... although with the installed user base of Android phones, Google / Apple pretty likely already have quite a bit of this info.

jimmaswell 12y ago
Can you give me one example of the government "misusing" the data from license-plate scanners? I know how it "turned out"; it turned out to be an effective means of tracking people on the run.
- mikeyouse 12y ago
  Here's one such example; http://cironline.org/reports/license-plate-readers-let-police-collect-millions-records-drivers-4883 http://cironline.org/reports/license-plate-readers-let-polic... Two-year database of every car's location at specific times & dates. Though it is hard to say if it's been misused or not since they frequently ignore FOIA's about its existence.
- evv 12y ago
  As with most surveillance, there hasn't been much misuse of the data yet. The things I worry about for the future: 1. Evidence of everybody breaking the law. (In this case, speeding). If everybody is in violation of the law, the government can choose who to prosecute. 2. Extortion. You might not care about privacy from big brother, but what if your friends and family were to know everything you had ever SMS'd? One day, boom, that might happen to everybody with a low credit score. Everybody else would need to pony up if they want their data kept secret. 3. Data leaks. With these huge vaults of private information, some is bound to leak before too long. Once the data is leaked, there is no putting it back. Eventually, all recorded data from this time period will enter the public record.
- the_ancient 12y ago
  I see you do not value privacy and I am sure you have stated many time "I have nothing to hide so I do not care if the government tracks me 24x7x365" That is very sad
  - jimmaswell 12y ago
    No, I just don't think it's unreasonable for it to be tracked what cars are using a road.
    - the_ancient 12y ago
      I think it is unreasonable that I have to put a personally identifiable ID number on my car in the first, it is abhorrent to me they need use this number I am required to install via the threat of violence to then create a database of ever mile I drive, and place I go, and everything I do
- chatmasta 12y ago
  Who has access to the database? Probably hundreds of people/engineers. What if one of them is stalking someone? What if he wants to know where his wife was last night?
  - jamesaguilar 12y ago
    I think he was asking for actual incidents, not hypotheticals. Its not hard to think of bad things that could happen. But whether anything has actually happened is a completely different question.
- eli 12y ago
  Mostly for writing parking tickets. When they rolled out plate scanners in DC they didn't even have access to stolen cars database -- it was purely for parking tickets.
- BrandonMarc 12y ago
  Living in a world where the IRS will secretly leak your tax details to your political enemies* means I'd rather the centralized database not exist in the first place ... at least, not without massive effort to remove personally identifying information. This is harder than it sounds. I believe Schneier had an article up showing how a person's lat-lon tracks alone makes them very easy to identify, if you already know things like where they live, where they work, etc. * well, they did promise they really didn't do it, so I guess it's okay then, because they wouldn't lie about it ... and I also believe 7 hard drives or whatever can simultaneously accidentally break, when they just happen to be the ones containing evidence under Congressional subpoena.
- lwhalen 12y ago
  Check out the NSA and their self-admitted "LOVEINT" incidents. Google is rife with cases, but you might just find yourself on a list...

jimmaswell 12y ago

Can you give me one example of the government "misusing" the data from license-plate scanners? I know how it "turned out"; it turned out to be an effective means of tracking people on the run.

mikeyouse 12y ago
Here's one such example; http://cironline.org/reports/license-plate-readers-let-police-collect-millions-records-drivers-4883 http://cironline.org/reports/license-plate-readers-let-polic... Two-year database of every car's location at specific times & dates. Though it is hard to say if it's been misused or not since they frequently ignore FOIA's about its existence.
evv 12y ago
As with most surveillance, there hasn't been much misuse of the data yet. The things I worry about for the future: 1. Evidence of everybody breaking the law. (In this case, speeding). If everybody is in violation of the law, the government can choose who to prosecute. 2. Extortion. You might not care about privacy from big brother, but what if your friends and family were to know everything you had ever SMS'd? One day, boom, that might happen to everybody with a low credit score. Everybody else would need to pony up if they want their data kept secret. 3. Data leaks. With these huge vaults of private information, some is bound to leak before too long. Once the data is leaked, there is no putting it back. Eventually, all recorded data from this time period will enter the public record.
the_ancient 12y ago
I see you do not value privacy and I am sure you have stated many time "I have nothing to hide so I do not care if the government tracks me 24x7x365" That is very sad
- jimmaswell 12y ago
  No, I just don't think it's unreasonable for it to be tracked what cars are using a road.
  - the_ancient 12y ago
    I think it is unreasonable that I have to put a personally identifiable ID number on my car in the first, it is abhorrent to me they need use this number I am required to install via the threat of violence to then create a database of ever mile I drive, and place I go, and everything I do
chatmasta 12y ago
Who has access to the database? Probably hundreds of people/engineers. What if one of them is stalking someone? What if he wants to know where his wife was last night?
- jamesaguilar 12y ago
  I think he was asking for actual incidents, not hypotheticals. Its not hard to think of bad things that could happen. But whether anything has actually happened is a completely different question.
eli 12y ago
Mostly for writing parking tickets. When they rolled out plate scanners in DC they didn't even have access to stolen cars database -- it was purely for parking tickets.
BrandonMarc 12y ago
Living in a world where the IRS will secretly leak your tax details to your political enemies* means I'd rather the centralized database not exist in the first place ... at least, not without massive effort to remove personally identifying information. This is harder than it sounds. I believe Schneier had an article up showing how a person's lat-lon tracks alone makes them very easy to identify, if you already know things like where they live, where they work, etc. * well, they did promise they really didn't do it, so I guess it's okay then, because they wouldn't lie about it ... and I also believe 7 hard drives or whatever can simultaneously accidentally break, when they just happen to be the ones containing evidence under Congressional subpoena.
lwhalen 12y ago
Check out the NSA and their self-admitted "LOVEINT" incidents. Google is rife with cases, but you might just find yourself on a list...