4 ms·

Mozilla's persistent over-promotion of the legacy technologies (HTML, JS, CSS) as the only acceptable way of web development is a very strong turn-off for me.

Mozilla's persistent over-promotion of the legacy technologies (HTML, JS, CSS) as the only acceptable way of web development is a very strong turn-off for me. NaCl let's you use e.g. C# in-browser without shitty and low-performance workarounds like transpiling. I hope it will become mainstream.

stephenr 12y ago
is this meant to be a joke/sarcasm?
- myrryr 12y ago
  I can see what you are saying, but NACL is a big deal. It isn't ONLY c/c++ but any language that can compile with LLVM, which is almost every language. Think about it, new scripting languages, new compiled languages, anything language you care about. You want to write in Haskell? fine... do so, and have it run instead of javascript. This IS a big big deal. No language is perfect, so the ability to use any of them? It is huge.
  - guilloche 12y ago
    I agree.
  - stephenr 12y ago
    I don't need to "think about it", I've experienced the idea before, twice. Do you remember Java Applets? Do you remember ActiveX controls? Do you remember Flash and/or Shockwave?
    - _random_ 12y ago
      "Native Client avoids these issues by using sandboxing." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client
      - stephenr 12y ago
        I never mentioned security. Their whole approach with both this and Dart are perfect examples of how they are following the old Microsoft playbook. "Your browser does not support Flash/Java/ActiveX/Bert and Ernie's latest bullshit, please upgrade to X to continue"
        _random_ 12y ago
        Dart is awesome! I hope they will come up with something that fixes all HTML & CSS warts as well. Don't tell me technology doesn't thrive on competition. Pigeonholing everyone into same set of legacy languages is simply not OK! (no transpiling suggestions please - it's crap)
        stephenr 12y ago
        This is why HTML CSS and JavaScript standards are constantly evolving, to solve real world problems.
bhenick 12y ago
Imperative languages - i.e., markup and scripting languages (HTML and CSS) have a shallower learning curve than programming languages, about which you need to learn about variables, objects, types, control structures, and so on through the entire catalog of logic concepts. At least there's enough JavaScript out there that you can get usable native code on GitHub, or perhaps even just cut-and-paste. Even without jQuery, if you're sagacious enough. And then of course there are full-on jQuery plug-ins, some of which even run tolerably off-the-shelf. THAT is why MozFound pushes the paradigm of progressive enhancement: not because it makes life easier for developers (it doesn't, as a rule) but because it makes Web publishing approachable to a far greater user population than developer-kit-based toolboxes. In conclusion: is reliance on the basic native stack the ONLY way? Of course not! It is, however, the way that's easiest to learn and (usually) the hardest to f* up. Yes, even CSS, as long as you care to walk before you run.

stephenr 12y ago

is this meant to be a joke/sarcasm?

myrryr 12y ago
I can see what you are saying, but NACL is a big deal. It isn't ONLY c/c++ but any language that can compile with LLVM, which is almost every language. Think about it, new scripting languages, new compiled languages, anything language you care about. You want to write in Haskell? fine... do so, and have it run instead of javascript. This IS a big big deal. No language is perfect, so the ability to use any of them? It is huge.
- guilloche 12y ago
  I agree.
- stephenr 12y ago
  I don't need to "think about it", I've experienced the idea before, twice. Do you remember Java Applets? Do you remember ActiveX controls? Do you remember Flash and/or Shockwave?
  - _random_ 12y ago
    "Native Client avoids these issues by using sandboxing." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Native_Client
    - stephenr 12y ago
      I never mentioned security. Their whole approach with both this and Dart are perfect examples of how they are following the old Microsoft playbook. "Your browser does not support Flash/Java/ActiveX/Bert and Ernie's latest bullshit, please upgrade to X to continue"
      - _random_ 12y ago
        Dart is awesome! I hope they will come up with something that fixes all HTML & CSS warts as well. Don't tell me technology doesn't thrive on competition. Pigeonholing everyone into same set of legacy languages is simply not OK! (no transpiling suggestions please - it's crap)
        stephenr 12y ago
        This is why HTML CSS and JavaScript standards are constantly evolving, to solve real world problems.

bhenick 12y ago

Imperative languages - i.e., markup and scripting languages (HTML and CSS) have a shallower learning curve than programming languages, about which you need to learn about variables, objects, types, control structures, and so on through the entire catalog of logic concepts. At least there's enough JavaScript out there that you can get usable native code on GitHub, or perhaps even just cut-and-paste. Even without jQuery, if you're sagacious enough. And then of course there are full-on jQuery plug-ins, some of which even run tolerably off-the-shelf. THAT is why MozFound pushes the paradigm of progressive enhancement: not because it makes life easier for developers (it doesn't, as a rule) but because it makes Web publishing approachable to a far greater user population than developer-kit-based toolboxes. In conclusion: is reliance on the basic native stack the ONLY way? Of course not! It is, however, the way that's easiest to learn and (usually) the hardest to f* up. Yes, even CSS, as long as you care to walk before you run.