5 ms·

IIRC stackless python implemented microthreads and channels before go existed - thats the whole point of stackless python - so whats the benefit here on top of

IIRC stackless python implemented microthreads and channels before go existed - thats the whole point of stackless python - so whats the benefit here on top of that? http://www.stackless.com/wiki/Tasklets http://www.stackless.com/wiki/Tasklets http://www.stackless.com/wiki/Channels http://www.stackless.com/wiki/Channels

abritishguy 12y ago
I was wondering the same thing.
f2f 12y ago
"microthreads", channels, and the select statement predate go at least by a couple of decades in Alef, Plan9's libthread, Limbo, Newsqueak, etc.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  They go back to Occam and Modula-2, among others, way before your list.
  - f2f 12y ago
    "at least" is there for a reason.
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      Well, given that you only listed projects where Rob Pike worked on, I wasn't sure what else covered by your "at least".
graffitici 12y ago
It looks like the goal of the project is mostly to adopt the syntax of Go. Instead of using gevent, Greenlets, Coroutines, etc.. they use "goroutines"..
pjmlp 12y ago
People keep thinking that Go routines and channels are something new.
- rmtew 12y ago
  They are something new. They're a solid more approachable packaged solution which includes them in a form more available to the general programmer. And popularised by Google. Yes, these things have been used in the past. No-one denies that, and there are copious references where Stackless was based on Limbo. Every time something new comes up which uses old technology, there's always those who have to assume it means that it insults the old adopters in some way. Or that fealty has to be paid to the old adopters. At some level this becomes tiresome and unhelpful.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    > At some level this becomes tiresome and unhelpful. It would help, if those promoting the new old technology would present it as bringing back something from the past, instead of a magic new technology.
    - rmtew 12y ago
      What if it isn't being presented as a magic new technology, and you just perceive it as being so?
rmtew 12y ago
Stackless Python isn't a simple out of the box framework, it's a basic set of primitives. New users have to overcome many of the same problems. Using a framework above Stackless, is a huge aid in gaining the benefits which the Stackless primitives provides. Only in the later years, has 'stacklesslib' been created to formalise some of the standard practises in a higher level framework. The benefits to new frameworks based on Stackless are obvious if you use Stackless.
rgalanakis 12y ago
Keep in mind, I am good friends with the Stackless maintainers, worked with Stackless professionally, and this project has had a lot of input from them. Richard (rmtew) is also a central Stackless figure. Richard has pretty much said everything I would have to say, but I just wanted to chime in to make explicit that goless is a tribute to stackless (and go, and gevent, and everything before it), not trashing them. It's really quite a simple library, as all the hard work is done by gevent/stackless and most of the hard API decisions were copied from Go. I'm not smart enough to invent this stuff from scratch!

abritishguy 12y ago

I was wondering the same thing.

f2f 12y ago

"microthreads", channels, and the select statement predate go at least by a couple of decades in Alef, Plan9's libthread, Limbo, Newsqueak, etc.

pjmlp 12y ago
They go back to Occam and Modula-2, among others, way before your list.
- f2f 12y ago
  "at least" is there for a reason.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    Well, given that you only listed projects where Rob Pike worked on, I wasn't sure what else covered by your "at least".

graffitici 12y ago

It looks like the goal of the project is mostly to adopt the syntax of Go. Instead of using gevent, Greenlets, Coroutines, etc.. they use "goroutines"..

pjmlp 12y ago

People keep thinking that Go routines and channels are something new.

rmtew 12y ago
They are something new. They're a solid more approachable packaged solution which includes them in a form more available to the general programmer. And popularised by Google. Yes, these things have been used in the past. No-one denies that, and there are copious references where Stackless was based on Limbo. Every time something new comes up which uses old technology, there's always those who have to assume it means that it insults the old adopters in some way. Or that fealty has to be paid to the old adopters. At some level this becomes tiresome and unhelpful.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  > At some level this becomes tiresome and unhelpful. It would help, if those promoting the new old technology would present it as bringing back something from the past, instead of a magic new technology.
  - rmtew 12y ago
    What if it isn't being presented as a magic new technology, and you just perceive it as being so?

rmtew 12y ago

Stackless Python isn't a simple out of the box framework, it's a basic set of primitives. New users have to overcome many of the same problems. Using a framework above Stackless, is a huge aid in gaining the benefits which the Stackless primitives provides. Only in the later years, has 'stacklesslib' been created to formalise some of the standard practises in a higher level framework. The benefits to new frameworks based on Stackless are obvious if you use Stackless.

rgalanakis 12y ago

Keep in mind, I am good friends with the Stackless maintainers, worked with Stackless professionally, and this project has had a lot of input from them. Richard (rmtew) is also a central Stackless figure. Richard has pretty much said everything I would have to say, but I just wanted to chime in to make explicit that goless is a tribute to stackless (and go, and gevent, and everything before it), not trashing them. It's really quite a simple library, as all the hard work is done by gevent/stackless and most of the hard API decisions were copied from Go. I'm not smart enough to invent this stuff from scratch!