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Rising productivity has just put more money in precious few pockets. While I truly believe that this vision of the future is technically possible, I have little

Rising productivity has just put more money in precious few pockets. While I truly believe that this vision of the future is technically possible, I have little faith that it will be the future we end up with.

protonfish 12y ago
When has technology ever resulted in the improvement of wages and working hours of the average person? The only things that have ever had a clear, direct affect in quality of life of the masses (both positive and negative) are political.
- atemerev 12y ago
  > When has technology ever resulted in the improvement of wages and working hours of the average person? Like, every time? Compare the average worker of today with average worker of 100 years ago.
  - Ygg2 12y ago
    > Like, every time? A chicken sees man coming to feed it, so it jumps out in front of him awaiting food. Then one day, man comes with an axe, and chicken still jumps in front of him expecting food. The end. I.e. Correlation doesn't imply causation etc. Imagine having at your disposal perfectly amoral and lethal robotics force. One that only exists to protect you and exterminate any threat to you. What stops the future rich man from treating a fellow man like a dog? Right now, the police might rebel against you if you go too far. I'd be interested to look at average worker today and future where inequality is super rampant. In that society, I think a worker from 100 years ago would compare similarly to a worker from 100 years in such future.
  - sharemywin 12y ago
    world wide or just US. since alot of the work from 100 years ago got outsourced with the polution to parts of the world that don't regulated it as much.
  - Chinjut 12y ago
    Alright, I'd like to. Do you know where I can find statistics on wages and working hours over history (in particular, I'm curious not just about 100 years ago, but also 200, 300, and 400 years ago, to get a fuller sense of the impact of the Industrial Revolution).
  - phaemon 12y ago
    Ok: The average worker today has a 5 day working week rather than a 6 day working week: a change that was brought about by political means (unions) rather than technological means. The average worker today has an 8 hour working day rather than a 12 hour working day: a change that was brought about by political means (unions) rather than technological means. The average worker today has a minimum wage and minimum safe working conditions: a change that was brought about by political means (unions) rather than technological means. Technology has certainly improved our lives, but you're not making the best case for it.
atemerev 12y ago
> Rising productivity has just put more money in precious few pockets. In all pockets. Again, compare a poor person of today with a poor person of 100 years ago.
- robertfw 12y ago
  This is absolutely true. But when money buys power, relative wealth becomes the important measure.

protonfish 12y ago

When has technology ever resulted in the improvement of wages and working hours of the average person? The only things that have ever had a clear, direct affect in quality of life of the masses (both positive and negative) are political.

atemerev 12y ago
> When has technology ever resulted in the improvement of wages and working hours of the average person? Like, every time? Compare the average worker of today with average worker of 100 years ago.
- Ygg2 12y ago
  > Like, every time? A chicken sees man coming to feed it, so it jumps out in front of him awaiting food. Then one day, man comes with an axe, and chicken still jumps in front of him expecting food. The end. I.e. Correlation doesn't imply causation etc. Imagine having at your disposal perfectly amoral and lethal robotics force. One that only exists to protect you and exterminate any threat to you. What stops the future rich man from treating a fellow man like a dog? Right now, the police might rebel against you if you go too far. I'd be interested to look at average worker today and future where inequality is super rampant. In that society, I think a worker from 100 years ago would compare similarly to a worker from 100 years in such future.
- sharemywin 12y ago
  world wide or just US. since alot of the work from 100 years ago got outsourced with the polution to parts of the world that don't regulated it as much.
- Chinjut 12y ago
  Alright, I'd like to. Do you know where I can find statistics on wages and working hours over history (in particular, I'm curious not just about 100 years ago, but also 200, 300, and 400 years ago, to get a fuller sense of the impact of the Industrial Revolution).
- phaemon 12y ago
  Ok: The average worker today has a 5 day working week rather than a 6 day working week: a change that was brought about by political means (unions) rather than technological means. The average worker today has an 8 hour working day rather than a 12 hour working day: a change that was brought about by political means (unions) rather than technological means. The average worker today has a minimum wage and minimum safe working conditions: a change that was brought about by political means (unions) rather than technological means. Technology has certainly improved our lives, but you're not making the best case for it.

atemerev 12y ago

> Rising productivity has just put more money in precious few pockets. In all pockets. Again, compare a poor person of today with a poor person of 100 years ago.

robertfw 12y ago
This is absolutely true. But when money buys power, relative wealth becomes the important measure.