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San Francisco has no right to compare itself to New York. None at all. New York has a legitimate demand problem, seeing as it's the capital of the world. Cali

San Francisco has no right to compare itself to New York. None at all. New York has a legitimate demand problem, seeing as it's the capital of the world. California has an artificial demand problem due to NIMBYs who corrupt zoning boards, oppose reasonable development at every turn, and live in the past while paying lip service to "building the future". (It also has a problem with corrupt/dirty foreign money swelling into the housing market, but that's an issue in New York as well.) New York has solid public transportation. You don't need a car if you live there. People bitch about the MTA, but it's remarkably cheap compared to having a car anywhere in the US, and remarkably convenient considering how much access it provides. San Francisco is a city where you need a car, but can't afford it. Parking costs are so bad that many garages post their 15 minute rates (often around $3.00). New York is hard-core urban and owns the positives and negatives that comes from it, and New York runs itself. San Francisco companies are run from the suburbs-- specifically, from an office park called "Sand Hill Road" in a stretch of land that really ought to be reclaimed by the cows and orange trees, because the people living there are contributing nothing but additional work for the sewer system. Manhattan is what it is, take it or leave it. (And there's nothing wrong with leaving it.) California is fundamentally dishonest and hypocritical, because it's full of people who pretend to be liberal but are, in many ways, worse than the Manhattan old board when it comes to elitism. New York isn't perfect. There's a lot that's badly designed or unpleasant about it, but if you compare it to the cataclysmic mismanagement of California at all levels, it's a breath of fresh air.

forca 12y ago
Well said. I couldn't agree more. I have always loathed California. It all seems so fake and far reaching, while NYC, as you say, is brutally honest in what it presents: lead, follow, or get out of the way.
- michaelochurch 12y ago
  New York is a place that forces you to accept that human life is mindlessly, ludicrously, and inexcusably unfair. It's not there in the abstract ("lifestyle" shows about rich losers, poverty on other continents) but quite visible, every day. It's in front of you, and it's not easy to accept, but after a while you learn from it and tune out the idiocy, while keeping the insights that make you a better person. In the suburbs (and the mentality that is now dominant in San Francisco is suburban, because the locals have been priced out by fratty douchebags and basic bitches) people have enough distance from what's going on that they don't have to acknowledge the facts of social injustice. They can persist in the delusional belief that "the rich" are more successful versions of themselves, and not preselected winners who've had social connections and resources delivered to them since before birth. I don't loathe "California", insofar as many people I like live there and it's a big state with some beautiful national parks. I'm just disgusted by what it has become, and especially by the utter defeat of the technology/engineer culture in Silicon Valley at the hands of MBA C-students and people flushed out of McKinsey.
  - forca 12y ago
    Again, well said. I agree with you. I, too, have some good friends who live out there (cannot fathom why). I like the raw energy of NYC, something no place in CA has, not even LA, and I lived out there for almost 4 years. NYC trumps any large US city for pure energy and things to do. I can be in Europe in a few hours, Canada in no time, the food is second to none, the weather is decent, as you tend to get four seasons instead of warm and cooler. I've lived in Europe, Asia, and 7 US states. NYC is by far my favourite place in the US to visit, and perhaps one day, live. NYC is walkable, something few US cities can boast. Not even Chicago comes close to NYC in amenities -- and Chicago cannot seem to get a grip on their gun violence problem, something NYC has all but stamped out. Let's not even mention the plethora of museums, restaurants, theatre choices, educational institutions, and more that NYC has going for it. No other US city can compare.
- wavefunction 12y ago
  this too shall pass (NYC is overrated, but so is SV)
rsync 12y ago
200 years ago, someone said the exact same thing about london vs. New York. Give it time.
- dismal2 12y ago
  200 years ago people were still willing to invest in infrastructure
  - ulfw 12y ago
    People still are. Just not in the US. Money goes elsewhere there.
baddox 12y ago
> San Francisco is a city where you need a car, but can't afford it. Maybe for some people, or for some definition of "need." I've been in SF over three years with no car, although I rent a car for a day maybe once every couple of months.
CalRobert 12y ago
"San Francisco has no right to compare itself to New York. None at all." Who exactly is the arbiter of this right? San Francisco (and for that matter Paris, Tokyo, Beijing, London, hell even Turlock) are free to compare themselves to whatever other city they like. Also, you don't need a car in SF if you're not lazy or just coming back from buying a couch, I prefer the weather in SF, and different cities have different good and bad things about them. As far as capital of the world? Eh... I guess, but London seems the more natural choice for that in many regards.
- forca 12y ago
  London is the financial capital, not the cultural capital. London long ago lost its lustre as a place of fun and sanity. You get taxed driving into the city centre, not so NYC, the cost of living in NYC is far less than London. A year-long NYC subway pass is dirt cheap compared to the 7,000 pound a year British Rail pass.
  - CalRobert 12y ago
    I like London and have a great time there when I visit, but I guess I'm weird. Brewdog, Euston tap, the skaters at South Bank, etc. are all good attractions. I also strongly support the congestion charge. Land is expensive, and letting automobiles drive all over it subsidizes drivers at the expense of the pedestrian (or cyclist). Ideally it would be so expensive to drive in the city center we could take a lane or two away from cars and give them to other road users, but I guess this is a pipe dream. Remember, at one point streets were for people (and carts, horses, early cycles, and yes, even very slow-moving automobiles), but cars stole that, and with it an important civic space, from us.
  - nostrademons 12y ago
    LA is the cultural capital. As depressing as it may be, world culture is now Hollywood culture; Los Angeles has far more impact on the culture of far-away places than either San Francisco, New York, or London.
    - 12y ago
conistonwater 12y ago
There is absolutely no such thing as a "demand problem", ever. This is a demand problem in the same way that a bakery might make some really popular cookies, and the customers would buy all those cookies. Then more customers would come in and be told, "sorry, we're out". This is not a "demand problem", this is a stupidity problem. "Demand problem" in a free-market capitalist economy? Please. Bake some more cookies, look how popular they are.
Noted 12y ago
You realize that California is a much larger place than just SF right? It's the most populous state, the 3 largest in mileage, and if it was a country it'd have the 8th largest GDP. It's astounding that you simply can't imagine that there exists cities that function differently than "the capital of the world" as you put it.

forca 12y ago

Well said. I couldn't agree more. I have always loathed California. It all seems so fake and far reaching, while NYC, as you say, is brutally honest in what it presents: lead, follow, or get out of the way.

michaelochurch 12y ago
New York is a place that forces you to accept that human life is mindlessly, ludicrously, and inexcusably unfair. It's not there in the abstract ("lifestyle" shows about rich losers, poverty on other continents) but quite visible, every day. It's in front of you, and it's not easy to accept, but after a while you learn from it and tune out the idiocy, while keeping the insights that make you a better person. In the suburbs (and the mentality that is now dominant in San Francisco is suburban, because the locals have been priced out by fratty douchebags and basic bitches) people have enough distance from what's going on that they don't have to acknowledge the facts of social injustice. They can persist in the delusional belief that "the rich" are more successful versions of themselves, and not preselected winners who've had social connections and resources delivered to them since before birth. I don't loathe "California", insofar as many people I like live there and it's a big state with some beautiful national parks. I'm just disgusted by what it has become, and especially by the utter defeat of the technology/engineer culture in Silicon Valley at the hands of MBA C-students and people flushed out of McKinsey.
- forca 12y ago
  Again, well said. I agree with you. I, too, have some good friends who live out there (cannot fathom why). I like the raw energy of NYC, something no place in CA has, not even LA, and I lived out there for almost 4 years. NYC trumps any large US city for pure energy and things to do. I can be in Europe in a few hours, Canada in no time, the food is second to none, the weather is decent, as you tend to get four seasons instead of warm and cooler. I've lived in Europe, Asia, and 7 US states. NYC is by far my favourite place in the US to visit, and perhaps one day, live. NYC is walkable, something few US cities can boast. Not even Chicago comes close to NYC in amenities -- and Chicago cannot seem to get a grip on their gun violence problem, something NYC has all but stamped out. Let's not even mention the plethora of museums, restaurants, theatre choices, educational institutions, and more that NYC has going for it. No other US city can compare.
wavefunction 12y ago
this too shall pass (NYC is overrated, but so is SV)

rsync 12y ago

200 years ago, someone said the exact same thing about london vs. New York. Give it time.

dismal2 12y ago
200 years ago people were still willing to invest in infrastructure
- ulfw 12y ago
  People still are. Just not in the US. Money goes elsewhere there.

baddox 12y ago

> San Francisco is a city where you need a car, but can't afford it. Maybe for some people, or for some definition of "need." I've been in SF over three years with no car, although I rent a car for a day maybe once every couple of months.

CalRobert 12y ago

"San Francisco has no right to compare itself to New York. None at all." Who exactly is the arbiter of this right? San Francisco (and for that matter Paris, Tokyo, Beijing, London, hell even Turlock) are free to compare themselves to whatever other city they like. Also, you don't need a car in SF if you're not lazy or just coming back from buying a couch, I prefer the weather in SF, and different cities have different good and bad things about them. As far as capital of the world? Eh... I guess, but London seems the more natural choice for that in many regards.

forca 12y ago
London is the financial capital, not the cultural capital. London long ago lost its lustre as a place of fun and sanity. You get taxed driving into the city centre, not so NYC, the cost of living in NYC is far less than London. A year-long NYC subway pass is dirt cheap compared to the 7,000 pound a year British Rail pass.
- CalRobert 12y ago
  I like London and have a great time there when I visit, but I guess I'm weird. Brewdog, Euston tap, the skaters at South Bank, etc. are all good attractions. I also strongly support the congestion charge. Land is expensive, and letting automobiles drive all over it subsidizes drivers at the expense of the pedestrian (or cyclist). Ideally it would be so expensive to drive in the city center we could take a lane or two away from cars and give them to other road users, but I guess this is a pipe dream. Remember, at one point streets were for people (and carts, horses, early cycles, and yes, even very slow-moving automobiles), but cars stole that, and with it an important civic space, from us.
- nostrademons 12y ago
  LA is the cultural capital. As depressing as it may be, world culture is now Hollywood culture; Los Angeles has far more impact on the culture of far-away places than either San Francisco, New York, or London.
  - 12y ago

conistonwater 12y ago

There is absolutely no such thing as a "demand problem", ever. This is a demand problem in the same way that a bakery might make some really popular cookies, and the customers would buy all those cookies. Then more customers would come in and be told, "sorry, we're out". This is not a "demand problem", this is a stupidity problem. "Demand problem" in a free-market capitalist economy? Please. Bake some more cookies, look how popular they are.

Noted 12y ago

You realize that California is a much larger place than just SF right? It's the most populous state, the 3 largest in mileage, and if it was a country it'd have the 8th largest GDP. It's astounding that you simply can't imagine that there exists cities that function differently than "the capital of the world" as you put it.