4 ms·

> the way theremins sound. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say it may partly be due to the lack of transients, which again, goes back to the replacement o

by diydsp 12y ago

> the way theremins sound. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say it may partly be due to the lack of transients, which again, goes back to the replacement of a physical process with an oversimplified informational model. In general, the ear is much more sensitive to the transient portion of sound than to the main oscillation. Many sounds can be synthesized with the same exact continuous waveform, but with different attacks, mainly due to the masking effects of the ear. Not to say Theremin doesn't have its place, but it has numerous issues and definitely deserves to evolve. Thanks for the nyckelharpa video. I had definitely seen it before, but the significance hadn't been as strong then :) Seeing that inspiring performance in the context of this conversation was valuable! In the past, I've been very conservative about avoiding corny and campy music tropes - there are way too many "wacky" novelty instruments, so I've avoided hurdy-gurdies, believing they had some kind of non-serious association (just listen to the name?!). As you pointed out, the leap from Electric Eel to Hurdy-Gurdy is almost trivial. So perhaps at some point I will loosen up and build some "digital hurdy-gurdies." In fact, one of my favorite instruments both conceptually and acoustically, is the autoharp. Perhaps I could combine the autoharp, nyckelharpa and hurdy-gurdy into something fresh. In the meantime, I've been concentrating on that "transients and physical systems" problem. As we know, the traditional electronic envelope model, ADSR, is tremendously conservative and unashamedly uni-dimensional. Inspired by Venkatesh Rao's book, "Tempo," I'm trying to make a model of envelopes which is more like a weather system than bouncing ball.

bane 12y ago
> may partly be due to the lack of transients It's possible. There's all kinds of issue with the theremin on the attack of the notes that drives me a little batty. I used to play around with digital tracking quite a bit, and one technique I developed that improved the sound considerably was to start note playback at some random offset near the beginning of the sample. It made the attacks sound more complicated and "human" even without playing around with the timing of any of the notes. If I had a second sample from somewhere else on the same instrument, I'd also sometimes substitute it on the same note as the first sample, just to provide some variety in the tone during the sustain. One other idea, bouncing off of your group performance focus, is to focus on folk or ancient music ensemble type music. The nature of the virtuoso performances in those kinds of milieus is very different and maybe less technical than in more classical venues. I remember taking an interest in Celtic fiddle music and attending some jam nights at some area pubs. It was pretty fascinating, everybody just sort of brought whatever instrument they played and if they could add to the song just sort of did what their instrument did. At any one time there might be a guy with a kazoo, some fiddle players, a couple flutists, autoharp, hurdy gurdy, guitar, saxaphone, etc. I'd imagine some electric instrument (so long as they didn't overpower the group) would blend in well enough. It was pretty intoxicating and the random collection of instruments almost always sounded fantastic. The best example I can think of for how it sounded was something like La Bottine Souriante, a group which basically brings a complete random collection of instruments on stage and plays the hell out of them following elements of a traditional Quebec style of folk music (but at a high level) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYza0wxs7Ic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYza0wxs7Ic A smaller ensemble might be Väsen, who feature a Nyckelharpa in their music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78hGmYwnNHg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78hGmYwnNHg With ancient music, the techniques are less well developed when you play in the original style, even on something like a violin. The bowing is greatly simplified, you may not even be playing with vibrato. Complex hand positions are reduced, playing on open strings (no fingers) is okay. As a musical target it's appealing for electronic instruments and seems to tolerate the transition better than more modern music. And it turns out it sometimes sounds amazing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi5-WRgA5GI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi5-WRgA5GI In fact here's a fantastic example on an EVI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd1gKm6QyDw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd1gKm6QyDw Sometime after Bach a lot of modern performance technique was invented, and eventually you end up with Paganini, who's music is unplayable on any electronic instrument I've ever seen. But he's doing crazy things like left hand pizzicatos in the middle of a bowing section and alternating between the wood and the hair of the bow while playing harmonics and all sorts of madness. But even just Paganini Caprice No. 24 pretty much exercises just about 95% of anything you can do on a violin. (3:50 in the video I've linked below will explode just about anybody's mind the first time they see it and realize what's going on). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPcnGrie__M&list=PLB084C0DA19FA247B https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPcnGrie__M&list=PLB084C0DA1...

by diydsp 12y ago

bane 12y ago

> may partly be due to the lack of transients It's possible. There's all kinds of issue with the theremin on the attack of the notes that drives me a little batty. I used to play around with digital tracking quite a bit, and one technique I developed that improved the sound considerably was to start note playback at some random offset near the beginning of the sample. It made the attacks sound more complicated and "human" even without playing around with the timing of any of the notes. If I had a second sample from somewhere else on the same instrument, I'd also sometimes substitute it on the same note as the first sample, just to provide some variety in the tone during the sustain. One other idea, bouncing off of your group performance focus, is to focus on folk or ancient music ensemble type music. The nature of the virtuoso performances in those kinds of milieus is very different and maybe less technical than in more classical venues. I remember taking an interest in Celtic fiddle music and attending some jam nights at some area pubs. It was pretty fascinating, everybody just sort of brought whatever instrument they played and if they could add to the song just sort of did what their instrument did. At any one time there might be a guy with a kazoo, some fiddle players, a couple flutists, autoharp, hurdy gurdy, guitar, saxaphone, etc. I'd imagine some electric instrument (so long as they didn't overpower the group) would blend in well enough. It was pretty intoxicating and the random collection of instruments almost always sounded fantastic. The best example I can think of for how it sounded was something like La Bottine Souriante, a group which basically brings a complete random collection of instruments on stage and plays the hell out of them following elements of a traditional Quebec style of folk music (but at a high level) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYza0wxs7Ic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYza0wxs7Ic A smaller ensemble might be Väsen, who feature a Nyckelharpa in their music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78hGmYwnNHg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78hGmYwnNHg With ancient music, the techniques are less well developed when you play in the original style, even on something like a violin. The bowing is greatly simplified, you may not even be playing with vibrato. Complex hand positions are reduced, playing on open strings (no fingers) is okay. As a musical target it's appealing for electronic instruments and seems to tolerate the transition better than more modern music. And it turns out it sometimes sounds amazing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi5-WRgA5GI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi5-WRgA5GI In fact here's a fantastic example on an EVI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd1gKm6QyDw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd1gKm6QyDw Sometime after Bach a lot of modern performance technique was invented, and eventually you end up with Paganini, who's music is unplayable on any electronic instrument I've ever seen. But he's doing crazy things like left hand pizzicatos in the middle of a bowing section and alternating between the wood and the hair of the bow while playing harmonics and all sorts of madness. But even just Paganini Caprice No. 24 pretty much exercises just about 95% of anything you can do on a violin. (3:50 in the video I've linked below will explode just about anybody's mind the first time they see it and realize what's going on). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPcnGrie__M&list=PLB084C0DA19FA247B https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPcnGrie__M&list=PLB084C0DA1...