4 ms·

I think that the UK is still considered the most classist country in Europe.. to an outsider, the confusing arrays of 'types of people' that you would encounter

by ibisum 12y ago

I think that the UK is still considered the most classist country in Europe.. to an outsider, the confusing arrays of 'types of people' that you would encounter during a trip to the UK, as described by its denizens, lends credence to this view. "Don't talk to that chav, mate!", or "yes, she's an upper-class type, went to school so-and-so", and "well, you're an engineer .. how very working class of you .." are all statements I have encountered with random people on the street during my brief visits to the UK, and it was quite unnerving just how ingrained this mode of thinking is in the populace. British TV seems to be nothing but a war of the classes. So I'm not sure you'd understand, unless you left for a while and came back. The British have a reputation for it - this can't be because the rest of the world hates Britain for some reason (there are legitimate reasons), but has to have some bearing in the truth of the circumstance. Classism is a very real thing in the UK - especially as a result of its education system, and in spite of many attempts at reform. EDIT: An interesting article on the subject: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5165594/Britains-class-system-alive-and-well-claims-research.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5165594/Britains-clas... And here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2303333/Great-British-Class-Survey-reveals-UK-7-social-classes-Are-precariat-new-affluent-worker-elite.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2303333/Great-Britis... .. and more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_structure_of_the_United_Kingdom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_structure_of_the_United_... .. and well, this pretty much clinches it - the UK is a classist society: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-22007058 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-22007058

simonbarker87 12y ago
I think class and socioeconomic group get seen as the same thing but aren't. Class implies some level of inheritance, you got X because your parents or great-grandparents did Y. Socioeconomic group is something that is more dependent on your current situation - I remember taking the "test" that the BBC had when those articles came out. I took the test a few times changing my answers based on where I was a few years ago, where I am now, and where I hope my career takes me and also on my mood (sometimes I like X sometimes Y) I managed to span 5 of those 7.
lclarkmichalek 12y ago
Yeah, no idea what you're talking about. I'll acknowledge that I'm white, male and come from a middle class background, so yeah, pretty privileged. But when I look at who gets "stick" for their background, it's pretty universally people who come from money. Now, that's not to say that there isn't jealousy relating to upbringing; I am the product of a state school, so I am jealous of grammar/scholarship kids, and generally dismissive of private/public school kids. And schooling is significant; every September the Oxbridge recruiters begin the arduous task of trying to get more state school applicants, and that disparity does manifest itself later on in life. However, it is never explicit. Someone saying "how very working class of you" is not something that would happen. Hell, I'd consider that person uncultured for saying that. If you really want to talk about British culture's reputation, then the first thing you should talk about is not acknowledging things, responding in a passive (aggressive) manner, maybe looking down your nose, but never ever confronting anyone. Also, I really wonder how much British culture matters in the tech scene. I'm in London, so that probably changes my experiences, but at my start up, we have 4 Italian employees, 1 Swiss guy, and me, the sole "British" member (though half my family is Polish, so go figure). The tech scene in London is incredibly diverse, and at least in my experience, British culture is pretty far from universally prevalent.
- ibisum 12y ago
  Well .. ""I am the product of a state school, so I am jealous of grammar/scholarship kids, and generally dismissive of private/public school kids."" .. this is precisely an example of the factors - class-derived - which I believe limit expansion of the student/technology scene in the UK.
  - lclarkmichalek 12y ago
    Well given that, of the people I attend university with, work with and generally interact with in the general tech sphere, there are only 2 people to whom I could assign a style of school, it's not too crippling of a prejudice.

by ibisum 12y ago

simonbarker87 12y ago

I think class and socioeconomic group get seen as the same thing but aren't. Class implies some level of inheritance, you got X because your parents or great-grandparents did Y. Socioeconomic group is something that is more dependent on your current situation - I remember taking the "test" that the BBC had when those articles came out. I took the test a few times changing my answers based on where I was a few years ago, where I am now, and where I hope my career takes me and also on my mood (sometimes I like X sometimes Y) I managed to span 5 of those 7.

lclarkmichalek 12y ago

Yeah, no idea what you're talking about. I'll acknowledge that I'm white, male and come from a middle class background, so yeah, pretty privileged. But when I look at who gets "stick" for their background, it's pretty universally people who come from money. Now, that's not to say that there isn't jealousy relating to upbringing; I am the product of a state school, so I am jealous of grammar/scholarship kids, and generally dismissive of private/public school kids. And schooling is significant; every September the Oxbridge recruiters begin the arduous task of trying to get more state school applicants, and that disparity does manifest itself later on in life. However, it is never explicit. Someone saying "how very working class of you" is not something that would happen. Hell, I'd consider that person uncultured for saying that. If you really want to talk about British culture's reputation, then the first thing you should talk about is not acknowledging things, responding in a passive (aggressive) manner, maybe looking down your nose, but never ever confronting anyone. Also, I really wonder how much British culture matters in the tech scene. I'm in London, so that probably changes my experiences, but at my start up, we have 4 Italian employees, 1 Swiss guy, and me, the sole "British" member (though half my family is Polish, so go figure). The tech scene in London is incredibly diverse, and at least in my experience, British culture is pretty far from universally prevalent.

ibisum 12y ago
Well .. ""I am the product of a state school, so I am jealous of grammar/scholarship kids, and generally dismissive of private/public school kids."" .. this is precisely an example of the factors - class-derived - which I believe limit expansion of the student/technology scene in the UK.
- lclarkmichalek 12y ago
  Well given that, of the people I attend university with, work with and generally interact with in the general tech sphere, there are only 2 people to whom I could assign a style of school, it's not too crippling of a prejudice.