3 ms·

I far prefer driving to riding a train (or flying, except for the first and last 20 minutes). Sitting in a train is not stress-free, for one thing. There are

I far prefer driving to riding a train (or flying, except for the first and last 20 minutes). Sitting in a train is not stress-free, for one thing. There are all these people around you, who you can't just ignore completely, and yet with whom you are not friends. It's like being at a party where you know no one, and parties are hard enough to deal with even if you know everyone at them. Secondly, there's not really enough room to work unless you can do your work on a phone; even if there were enough room for a decent-sized laptop between you and the seat in front, you'd still have to put everything away and get up whenever the people away from the aisle wanted out, which is every 15 minutes or so, seemingly. This problem also exists for reading. Also, when you're driving, there's always the possibility of stopping at something that interests you, or taking a different route. You are in control of your own movement, in a way that you aren't at all in a train, where you can't realistically choose to do something differently. Even a comfortable jail is still jail (though Amtrak, at least, is no more comfortable than business-class flying), and while you might choose to put yourself in a traveling jail for 12 hours, the lack of freedom to choose differently halfway through will, of course, wear on you. I took a train when I moved from Alabama to the DC metro area last year, and I quickly realized I should have flown. There was absolutely nothing to recommend the experience over flying, which is very similar, except much shorter and somewhat cheaper (and Amtrak, the train I took, is subsidized, so a train that actually reflected its true cost in the ticket price would be, at current standards, an economy-class experience with a luxury-class price).

tptacek 17y ago
This seems completely backwards to me --- I've gotten real work done every time I've ridden the Acela, and I can't think of a single line of code I've ever written on a plane.
- randallsquared 17y ago
  Well, my own trip was stressful, cramped, and otherwise uncomfortable, and I wouldn't bother to repeat it. If I really needed to spend that time coding and had no option but to do it while en route, I'd much rather spend it mostly in an airport. I've never actually done any coding while on a train or a plane, though I have while riding shotgun in a car across the West, while my wife-at-the-time drove. :)
  - tptacek 17y ago
    It sounds like you took a legacy Amtrak train (does Acela go south of DC?). There is no comparison between Acela and standard Amtrak.
- Kadin 17y ago
  I am with you; I ride the northeast corridor frequently (both on the Acela and the regular regionals) and I've gotten hundreds of hours of work done while clanking along at (average) 45MPH. The key advantages Amtrak has over a plane, in terms of getting work done: * Every seat has a 120VAC outlet * There's no cellphone prohibition Now the latter can be somewhat obnoxious if you end up in a car of people who spend the whole trip yelling into their phones, but I always sit in the "Quiet Car," if one exists, to prevent this. And then I tether my phone to my laptop to use its internet connection, and I can do all my work from the train. (The connection drops going through the Hudson River tunnels and in a few other places, but in general there's coverage all the way down.) A 6-hour train trip is for me almost always more productive than a (theoretically) 1.5-hour plane flight, because I can spend virtually all of the train trip working, and not screwing around waiting in line, going through security, etc. The way I normally schedule it, flying requires me to give up a half-day of work, while I'll put in a regular day's work from the train. The equipment is outdated (and has a certain "Amtrak aroma" to it that makes me want to shower immediately afterwards) and it would be great if that 6-hour train trip only took 3 or 4, but they've already got the airlines beat along the NEC, as far as I'm concerned.
- davidw 17y ago
  I wrote the initial version of Hecl on the train going back and forth between Rome and Padova. Trains are great for working, and are so much more relaxing than flying around.
masklinn 17y ago
> Sitting in a train is not stress-free, for one thing. It's the closest I've ever known to stress-free transportation unless you include limousines. > here are all these people around you, who you can't just ignore completely Why can't you? You can't fart in public cause that's bad education, but take a book or a laptop, a PMP and a pair of earbuds and you're off. You can also sleep, many do here in the early trains. > It's like being at a party where you know no one, and parties are hard enough to deal with even if you know everyone at them. Uh no it's not, at a party you're supposed to talk to people and socialize. In a train you're supposed to do your own stuff and not bother other travelers. > if there were enough room for a decent-sized laptop between you and the seat in front There is. In France there are even the center/4 places tables with even more room. And that's 2nd class. > you'd still have to put everything away Put what away? Lift your laptop using one hand and get out. > whenever the people away from the aisle wanted out In France's TGV, there's one window seat and one aisle seat. Period. And if you use reservations and are early enough you can pick your seat. I pretty much always get window seat on the upper deck. > Also, when you're driving, there's always the possibility of stopping at something that interests you, or taking a different route. You're in a train to go from point A to point B, not to visit Manitoulin Island. And the different route complaint is nonsensical. > and while you might choose to put yourself in a traveling jail for 12 hours There is no planned US route even remotely reaching 12h. In a current-generation HST, 12h would be more than 2000 miles in a single trip. That's simply not part of the operational range. > I took a train when I moved from Alabama to the DC metro area last year Care = none. We're talking high-speed rail here, not 60 years old trainsets on shit lines. > and Amtrak, the train I took, is subsidized So are airports and highways.
- randallsquared 17y ago
  There is no planned US route even remotely reaching 12h. Last year's current route from Atlanta, GA to Washington, DC was 13 hours. > I took a train when I moved from Alabama to the DC metro area last year Care = none. We're talking high-speed rail here, not 60 years old trainsets on shit lines. The commenter I replied to had said: "Being from India (where the rail system is awesome, even though its not high speed [...]", so we were talking non-high-speed for the purposes of this comparison of how he prefers rail to driving, and I prefer driving to rail. However, you're certainly under no obligation to care. :) Uh no it's not, at a party you're supposed to talk to people and socialize. In a train you're supposed to do your own stuff and not bother other travelers. Again, "Also, I dont understand people who prefer driving 8 hours, rather than sitting in a train, stress free and can actually use their time to work/read/socialize", you can see I was responding to ujjwalg, who'd offered up his experience with India's non-high-speed, socializing-appropriate trains. :) Anyway, it sounds like you're talking about commuting, which I do take a train for, and which I'd be happy to take high-speed rail for, if it was easy to do. I don't mind being on a train for 30 minutes when I have someplace to be. Actually taking hours-long trips by train, however, is not my thing, especially since anyplace a train serves is likely to be served by plane as well, more quickly.
radu_floricica 17y ago
Working conditions can be very different. Sometimes you can get some sort of business class, where pretty much everything is geared toward laptop use: power outlets, wireless, seating, tables and so on. But even without it, I prefer by far to read a book then to drive. The "awkwardness" factor is something you can get used to pretty fast.
carbon8 17y ago
It's a huge mistake to judge all trains by Amtrak's current condition. It's quite awful compared to modern trains in other parts of the world. You'd be surprised at how smooth and quiet modern trains can be, and that combined with wifi, nice seating and convenient stations makes it a very pleasant way to travel.
- hughprime 17y ago
  In my limited experience with Amtrak (admittedly limited to the Capitol Corridor line to Sacramento), there's no real problem with the comfort and quietness of the train -- the seats are comfortable, the trains aren't crowded, the staff are reasonably pleasant, and it's no slower than driving. I've never noticed the noise as a problem either. Combine all that with the pleasant view of the Bay on the Richmond-Martinez stretch and it's a really pleasant way to travel. The only problems are (a) that they're often late, and (b) that even with the bridge toll and $4 gas it's cheaper to drive my own gas-hogging car to Sac than to catch the train.
  - carbon8 17y ago
    I haven't been on the Capitol Corridor line and don't know if they use newer, nicer trains than most of Amtrak. I've been on all of the cross country lines and a number of the stretches in the east, which almost exclusively use Superliner cars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superliner_(railcar) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superliner_(railcar) and similar single-level coach cars. The difference between these and modern trains is like night and day. The Superliners are noisy and bumpy, with the classic "ka-clump, ka-clump" throughout the journey, and the interiors are cramped and, frequently, colored a drab, stained brown. In contrast, modern trains feel like they are gliding on the tracks with almost no sound (no "ka-clump") and tend to be roomy and comfortable. Indeed, Amtrak's service is horrible, too. The worst case I experienced was paying for a sleeper car for an overnight trip, only to be told as we were being herded onto a single level coach that the sleeper car was broken and we were being downgraded.

tptacek 17y ago

This seems completely backwards to me --- I've gotten real work done every time I've ridden the Acela, and I can't think of a single line of code I've ever written on a plane.

randallsquared 17y ago
Well, my own trip was stressful, cramped, and otherwise uncomfortable, and I wouldn't bother to repeat it. If I really needed to spend that time coding and had no option but to do it while en route, I'd much rather spend it mostly in an airport. I've never actually done any coding while on a train or a plane, though I have while riding shotgun in a car across the West, while my wife-at-the-time drove. :)
- tptacek 17y ago
  It sounds like you took a legacy Amtrak train (does Acela go south of DC?). There is no comparison between Acela and standard Amtrak.
Kadin 17y ago
I am with you; I ride the northeast corridor frequently (both on the Acela and the regular regionals) and I've gotten hundreds of hours of work done while clanking along at (average) 45MPH. The key advantages Amtrak has over a plane, in terms of getting work done: * Every seat has a 120VAC outlet * There's no cellphone prohibition Now the latter can be somewhat obnoxious if you end up in a car of people who spend the whole trip yelling into their phones, but I always sit in the "Quiet Car," if one exists, to prevent this. And then I tether my phone to my laptop to use its internet connection, and I can do all my work from the train. (The connection drops going through the Hudson River tunnels and in a few other places, but in general there's coverage all the way down.) A 6-hour train trip is for me almost always more productive than a (theoretically) 1.5-hour plane flight, because I can spend virtually all of the train trip working, and not screwing around waiting in line, going through security, etc. The way I normally schedule it, flying requires me to give up a half-day of work, while I'll put in a regular day's work from the train. The equipment is outdated (and has a certain "Amtrak aroma" to it that makes me want to shower immediately afterwards) and it would be great if that 6-hour train trip only took 3 or 4, but they've already got the airlines beat along the NEC, as far as I'm concerned.
davidw 17y ago
I wrote the initial version of Hecl on the train going back and forth between Rome and Padova. Trains are great for working, and are so much more relaxing than flying around.

masklinn 17y ago

> Sitting in a train is not stress-free, for one thing. It's the closest I've ever known to stress-free transportation unless you include limousines. > here are all these people around you, who you can't just ignore completely Why can't you? You can't fart in public cause that's bad education, but take a book or a laptop, a PMP and a pair of earbuds and you're off. You can also sleep, many do here in the early trains. > It's like being at a party where you know no one, and parties are hard enough to deal with even if you know everyone at them. Uh no it's not, at a party you're supposed to talk to people and socialize. In a train you're supposed to do your own stuff and not bother other travelers. > if there were enough room for a decent-sized laptop between you and the seat in front There is. In France there are even the center/4 places tables with even more room. And that's 2nd class. > you'd still have to put everything away Put what away? Lift your laptop using one hand and get out. > whenever the people away from the aisle wanted out In France's TGV, there's one window seat and one aisle seat. Period. And if you use reservations and are early enough you can pick your seat. I pretty much always get window seat on the upper deck. > Also, when you're driving, there's always the possibility of stopping at something that interests you, or taking a different route. You're in a train to go from point A to point B, not to visit Manitoulin Island. And the different route complaint is nonsensical. > and while you might choose to put yourself in a traveling jail for 12 hours There is no planned US route even remotely reaching 12h. In a current-generation HST, 12h would be more than 2000 miles in a single trip. That's simply not part of the operational range. > I took a train when I moved from Alabama to the DC metro area last year Care = none. We're talking high-speed rail here, not 60 years old trainsets on shit lines. > and Amtrak, the train I took, is subsidized So are airports and highways.

randallsquared 17y ago
There is no planned US route even remotely reaching 12h. Last year's current route from Atlanta, GA to Washington, DC was 13 hours. > I took a train when I moved from Alabama to the DC metro area last year Care = none. We're talking high-speed rail here, not 60 years old trainsets on shit lines. The commenter I replied to had said: "Being from India (where the rail system is awesome, even though its not high speed [...]", so we were talking non-high-speed for the purposes of this comparison of how he prefers rail to driving, and I prefer driving to rail. However, you're certainly under no obligation to care. :) Uh no it's not, at a party you're supposed to talk to people and socialize. In a train you're supposed to do your own stuff and not bother other travelers. Again, "Also, I dont understand people who prefer driving 8 hours, rather than sitting in a train, stress free and can actually use their time to work/read/socialize", you can see I was responding to ujjwalg, who'd offered up his experience with India's non-high-speed, socializing-appropriate trains. :) Anyway, it sounds like you're talking about commuting, which I do take a train for, and which I'd be happy to take high-speed rail for, if it was easy to do. I don't mind being on a train for 30 minutes when I have someplace to be. Actually taking hours-long trips by train, however, is not my thing, especially since anyplace a train serves is likely to be served by plane as well, more quickly.

radu_floricica 17y ago

Working conditions can be very different. Sometimes you can get some sort of business class, where pretty much everything is geared toward laptop use: power outlets, wireless, seating, tables and so on. But even without it, I prefer by far to read a book then to drive. The "awkwardness" factor is something you can get used to pretty fast.

carbon8 17y ago

It's a huge mistake to judge all trains by Amtrak's current condition. It's quite awful compared to modern trains in other parts of the world. You'd be surprised at how smooth and quiet modern trains can be, and that combined with wifi, nice seating and convenient stations makes it a very pleasant way to travel.

hughprime 17y ago
In my limited experience with Amtrak (admittedly limited to the Capitol Corridor line to Sacramento), there's no real problem with the comfort and quietness of the train -- the seats are comfortable, the trains aren't crowded, the staff are reasonably pleasant, and it's no slower than driving. I've never noticed the noise as a problem either. Combine all that with the pleasant view of the Bay on the Richmond-Martinez stretch and it's a really pleasant way to travel. The only problems are (a) that they're often late, and (b) that even with the bridge toll and $4 gas it's cheaper to drive my own gas-hogging car to Sac than to catch the train.
- carbon8 17y ago
  I haven't been on the Capitol Corridor line and don't know if they use newer, nicer trains than most of Amtrak. I've been on all of the cross country lines and a number of the stretches in the east, which almost exclusively use Superliner cars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superliner_(railcar) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superliner_(railcar) and similar single-level coach cars. The difference between these and modern trains is like night and day. The Superliners are noisy and bumpy, with the classic "ka-clump, ka-clump" throughout the journey, and the interiors are cramped and, frequently, colored a drab, stained brown. In contrast, modern trains feel like they are gliding on the tracks with almost no sound (no "ka-clump") and tend to be roomy and comfortable. Indeed, Amtrak's service is horrible, too. The worst case I experienced was paying for a sleeper car for an overnight trip, only to be told as we were being herded onto a single level coach that the sleeper car was broken and we were being downgraded.