7 ms·

How to Be Polite

219 points by cjr 12y ago

vendakka 12y ago
If I could upvote this twice I would. I still haven't gotten to the point where I can be polite all of the time. However, I find that when I try to be pleasant to people on principle, it takes away a lot of stress. I stop worrying about whether they are treating me well, or if I should start pushing back, because I've already made the decision to be friendly and polite. If they choose not to take advantage of this, that is unfortunate. However, I no longer have to react to their perceived bad behaviour in kind. It is remarkably freeing when I can do this.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
bellerocky 12y ago
Hair touching aside, the amount of space required between people is bordering on the absurd. I'm sorry you feel uncomfortable but two arm lengths of personal space at all times is not something you're entitled to. It's like we all want to live in a bubble. In non-western countries bumping into someone isn't the traumatizing horror it is in the US. It's just about expectations, if people didn't expect to have a vastness of empty air around them they wouldn't suffer PTSD for the rest of the day when someone stood almost within touching distance of them. I'm not saying it's OK to be breathing down people's necks and people should consider the comfort zones of others, but it's kind of extreme in the US. If there's an empty chair next to you, I'll sit in it, and if there's a public urinal available next to yours I'll make use of it. Deal with it.
- Squarel 12y ago
  That is because different cultures have different customs. In some cultures it is acceptable to hug and put your arm around someone you have not met before, in others, even non-western ones, it is seen as extremely rude. My language teacher when I moved here was telling our mixed nationality class about how in her perception, as you moved further north from the Mediterranean, the personal space people have increases, and how this does not mean people are not comfortable with people near them. This was in the same lesson where we started covering different gestures and how offensive in one is fine in another. Two arms length is a farther than I usually have, but coming within an arms length if I do not know you, especially at a party, unless to tap my shoulder for attention will make me feel uncomfortable. Two arms length requires me to raise my voice to talk to you, which I consider ruder than being close. That aside, the OP reads more like a "How to social engineer" than a how to be polite.
  - bellerocky 12y ago
    I wonder if maybe the amount of space required between people contributes to a shared sense of isolation and maybe even entitlement.
  - manmal 12y ago
    Regarding "How to social engineer" - I rather read it as a nice way to keep emotional distance to people without being cold. I think I'm gonna try it - I have a tendency to constantly judge people which I want to get rid of anyway.
  - philwelch 12y ago
    Distance from the Mediterranean sounds about right. Americans inherit our sense of personal space from the English, more or less. Some cultures are even more extreme: http://i.imgur.com/g2DQgr5.jpg http://i.imgur.com/g2DQgr5.jpg
  - tripzilch 12y ago
    > Two arms length requires me to raise my voice to talk to you, which I consider ruder than being close. I've been paying attention to this and have come to the conclusion that this is one of the major factors why Americans are perceived as "loud". As you indicate, this can lead to another type of invasion of personal space (for those who aren't part of that particular conversation).
- tacawa 12y ago
  Part of being polite is being able to adjust to different cultural norms. With that attitude you might have a tough time in Galway, and do okay in Shanghai. But it's not hard to do okay in both places.
- Lambdanaut 12y ago
  I've noticed this effect in eastern cultures, particularly in eastern cultures that have large native population densities. I work for an Indian company and all of my co-workers are extremely laid-back and seem to have no sense of personal space whatsover. It's really not a bad thing! They often lean on each other's shoulders and are very huggy. They're not afraid to play-fight and it doesn't become an awkward space-invasion thing. It's just human interaction for them.
- manmal 12y ago
  Yeah as a central European it strikes me as quite weird when I hear Americans ranting about how people get way too close to them in queues. And I can't relate to the anger they seem to experience as a result. Wikipedia says "Personal space is highly variable, and can be due to cultural differences and personal experiences."[1] - cultural differences, yes, yes. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_space http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_space
- maxerickson 12y ago
  I see 2 feet, not 2 arms. I also don't see a whole lot of angst over it (in the article), just that it's polite to give people that much space.
- angersock 12y ago
  That's just straight-up cultural norms; just because it's customary in the US (and maybe even then only in certain areas), doesn't mean it's the same everywhere. To wit: a former coworker of mine was Romanian, and a rather tall fellow. Whenever he wanted to talk about something, he'd sidle up within about a foot and start chatting. This was unnerving because he was probably 6'4 or 6'5, and suddenly he was all up in my business--once I realized that it was just different norms, I was fine with it.
  - the-dude 12y ago
    There is a Seinfeld for every social occasion, a bit like xkcd: "The Close Talker" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGVSIkEi3mM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGVSIkEi3mM
mbech 12y ago
I'm all aboard with being pleasant and respectful of others, but find some aspects of this distasteful. Specifically, the portions of the author's "politeness" that involve performance, or adhering to a script I find off-putting. For example: "Just ask the other person what they do, and right after they tell you, say: 'Wow. That sounds hard.' " While it seems that many aspects of "politeness" are intended to trigger pleasant feelings in the other person (which seems harmless enough), I find it hard to be in favor of something so disingenuous. Even when it comes to small talk, I think one can be both respectful and charming without having to fall back on a script and cheapen the interaction.
- 6d0debc071 12y ago
  > I think one can be both respectful and charming without having to fall back on a script and cheapen the interaction. Sure, one can be. But what about with people you find incredibly boring or distasteful? Usually we'd just choose not to interact with those people, but that's not being charming.
  - soneca 12y ago
    I would say you should hold off your judgement of value a bit. That is the charming part, to give a chance to people to interest you. Maybe they will too find it boring or distasteful and you will have a chance to be charming giving incentive to they chase their dreams. Or recognize that if they find what they do interesting, that is enough. There is no reason to judge how they experience their job. It is not like it is common to meet a dictator or something. I agree with your parent comment, where a script that includes a fake reaction cheapens the interaction. Be open to diversity is a more honest way to be charming. EDIT: 6d0debc071, for some reason I can't reply once more. But my answer is very much in the line of mbech last comment here. Use something that doesn't involve deception. A question rather than an affirmation.
    - 6d0debc071 12y ago
      > There is no reason to judge how they experience their job. I wasn't saying that you should, indeed some of the most boring people I know find themselves endlessly interesting. The scenario I'm suggesting is closer to: You give people a chance to interest you, your interests don't align with theirs - now what?
AceJohnny2 12y ago
I agree strongly on his thesis, that being polite is a good thing to be and that too many folks are oblivious to its usefulness. I'm not so keen on his writing style, but he makes a number of good points. "Useless in high school but extremely useful later on": yes, school is when you'd expect to learn such skills, but high-school is such a toxic environment that too many folks learn the opposite of politeness (like how to dominate in an interaction, or flee it). "it provides insulation against bad situations" (the gloves/dirty laundry paragraph): very much so. Politeness and etiquette provides guidelines to interact in situations that would instinctively lead to aggression. "it lets you gather information about people": I don't like the manipulation undertones of this part, but it's true that with a little skill you can turn many a conversation into a mine of information and bonding. "touching and personal space": as others have mentioned, this is very flexible across cultures, but I believe that everyone has some level of personal space boundaries. Break these and the other person becomes defensive, uncomfortable.
AceJohnny2 12y ago
It's a stereotype that us geeks are poorly socialized. After the all-too-common years of school bullying and stunted social growth that entails, I was lucky enough to meet the right people and learn better skills of communication and empathy. Politeness for me started as a facade to hide behind, but over time it turned into a tool of empathy and connection. I believe this to be my most useful and powerful skill, far beyond any technical skill I have. I wish more geeks (such as Lennart Poettering to name just one notorious hacker) would learn this.
bowlofpetunias 12y ago
Most of this is only true for Anglo-Saxon values of politeness, which many other cultures will see as insincere, fake, cold, manipulative and even downright insulting. This may not apply to the author, who writes "I am often consumed with a sense of overwhelming love and empathy", but certainly to the vast majority of people who don't have such extreme levels of empathy but use the same tactics. Yes, like many people I will fall for the "that sounds hard" trick, but if I see you pull that multiple times I'll file you under "manipulative cunt" unless I have a good reason to assume you're that one in a million who actually gives a fuck. Because most of us really, really don't.
- com2kid 12y ago
  > unless I have a good reason to assume you're that one in a million who actually gives a fuck. Because most of us really, really don't. I'd encourage you to re-evaluate that. What if you just so happen to live in a world where most people are nice, kind, and caring?
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
spodek 12y ago
Despite his points about politeness helping him, which I appreciate, politeness is still following rules, aka doing what other people tell you. With social skills, as with any other discipline, merely following rules will make you a craftsperson, not an artist. Artistry comes from knowing the rules so well you can transcend them. I prefer the musician who knows how to improvise sometimes the "wrong" note, the quarterback who shines when the play falls apart, the chess player who develops new moves, ... you get the idea. Personally, I'm more interested in becoming an artist than just following rules. For example, I prefer to find out how I can quickly create deep bonds, which you can do when you break some of the author's rules. I grew up with poor social skills and the geek scientist in me wanted to understand what was going on. Then the geek entrepreneur in me wanted to use what I figured out and develop it as far as I could. Then the business entrepreneur in me wanted to polish it so people would appreciate it. Now I coach people in it too. I feel like the guy wrote a story about how to play scales on the piano, though I enjoyed the writing style. Who wants to stop there? My story about my friend and Jack Nicholson at the U.S. Open illustrates the social value in breaking a dress code (from my blog http://joshuaspodek.com/high-status-living-rules-jack-nicholson-u-s-open http://joshuaspodek.com/high-status-living-rules-jack-nichol...). There are a million other role models of people who shine in breaking rules, but I'll just tell that one story about him: A friend who grew up in Queens and became the senior ball boy at the U.S. Open told me a story about his friend who worked there too. One day he was working at the door to the U.S. Open’s VIP room enforcing the jacket-and-tie dress code. Jack Nicholson came by and started walking into the room wearing shorts and a t-shirt. My friend’s friend, following the rules, in a nervous high school student voice, said “I’m sorry Mr. Nicholson. There is a dress code and I’m afraid I have to ask you to follow it.” With a polite laugh, Jack Nicholson said “I don’t think so,” and continued in. I'll bet Jack Nicholson didn't start breaking rules because he became a star. I'll bet he became a star by breaking rules -- not blindly, but intelligently.
- tormeh 12y ago
  Oh look, the PUA community is arriving. To be more constructive: There are great benefits to having high status, but it's simply unreachable for most of us, in addition to having hidden downsides. Instead, I would focus on being pleasant to people around you and create good personal relationships.
lnanek2 12y ago
Seems kind of annoying and inefficient to me. If I took someone out on a date and started talking about tumors I'd rather they say to talk about something else than just be polite like he did. Then I could integrate the suggestion and maybe we'd have a good time. He had to wait for years for another chance at something that could have been fixed with thirty seconds of honestly.
molbioguy 12y ago
Politeness serves as a buffer. It gives you time to evaluate the situation and gain more information while keeping you from making a rash judgement - both positive and negative. Later on, it keeps you from unnecessarily making enemies of the people you don't respect but must nevertheless deal with. It works hand in hand with patience, which I see as being in very short supply these days. In my experience, it is an extremely valuable trait.
nktr1 12y ago
Here is the daily Medium article
darrelld 12y ago
Just remember, polite varies from situation to situation. Growing up in the Caribbean when I was a teen meeting other people my age was a very physical thing. You might have someone's arm around your shoulder or get jostled around a little within hours of meeting them. In fact that was how relationships formed. Touching a girls hair, or even giving it a light tug was all part of the flirting game. To be clear it's not like you just met someone and started touching them everywhere and it didn't have to happen everytime, but during the course of conversation if it was appropriate and natural a light touch here and there was just part of how things worked. Moving to the US I found out very quickly that you give most people space unless you were invited in closer, but I've found Europeans that I've met are more open to an appropriate natural touch
rheide 12y ago
Excellent article, and I feel it also applies to me, so I wrote down some thoughts. maqr's comment about this being dangerously close to social engineering rings very true, although I doubt that it's intentional/by choice. Personally I've never had a lot of natural conversational skills, so I find myself falling back to old tricks that work at times when I'm not confident, and sometimes they happen to be tricks that relate to social engineering. I'd like to think that this doesn't make my interactions less genuine. Finding a polite way to proceed through the conversation has not been a problem for me since I learned this. Lately, rather than moving towards politeness, I'm trying to move away from it. The examples of always replying positively to people, never steering towards or even approach hostility is a very, very tiring path to walk. In my experience, it does pay off on the whole, but I've spent a lot of time talking to people that were just never 'interesting' or 'rewarding' to be with, simply because it always seems easier to please than to confront. These days I'm trying to move towards blunt honesty with people as soon as I can (after an initial period of polite conversation to gauge if they'd be comfortable with it). So far, I think the people I know appreciate me more for it, and the people who wouldn't appreciate me for it are not in my life. Or perhaps it just feels good to try something different.
Htsthbjig 12y ago
How to be polite IN NORTH AMERICA. He talks about North American obsession with touch like a normal thing, but in fact it is the exception in the world. Being polite changes with the culture. In Morocco it is totally ok for male friends to hold hands in the street. In South America you touch a lot other people. The same happens in Africa. I had India children and adolescent jump over me just after meeting them just playing. I had played soccer all around Africa and touched shoulders of my playmates, grab their head and hug celebrated with them goals without a problem. Also it was very manly thing to do. In China or Korea people to burp is ok. Using a kleenex on your nose is not. In Spain we kiss women when we meet them and we touch kids we recently met a lot. I used to photograph kids a lot. In the US or UK with the obsession in sex they have they can put you in jail for photographic a kid smiling.
- phyllostachys 12y ago
  Oh, if only more of my fellow countrymen could get a worldly experience before they settle down. Many people in my hometown hardly go but an hour or two away except on a vacation. I remember how I had a culture class before my first deployment to Iraq (USMC, 2007). I, being someone who has always been interested in other cultures, really liked it. I'm not sure my fellow Marines took to it so quickly but after we came back I think they were better people for it (the class and the deployment). I think your reference to our American Prudish-ness is likely spot on too.
binarysolo 12y ago
I'm surprised at all the approval of this politeness strategy given my modus operandi -- making sure I'm doing interesting-enough things to have a comfortable influx of people, then filter through them by being upfront and asking hard but honest questions. I don't think we realistically can connect with everyone on a meaningful level, and given there's 7-8 billion people out there, a search/filter strategy just seems more reasonable than trying to please everyone. That being said, I am not advocating to the burning of any bridges at all -- as the scenes we walk tend to get smaller and smaller the more focused and specialized they get.

219 points by cjr 12y ago

If I could upvote this twice I would. I still haven't gotten to the point where I can be polite all of the time. However, I find that when I try to be pleasant to people on principle, it takes away a lot of stress. I stop worrying about whether they are treating me well, or if I should start pushing back, because I've already made the decision to be friendly and polite. If they choose not to take advantage of this, that is unfortunate. However, I no longer have to react to their perceived bad behaviour in kind. It is remarkably freeing when I can do this.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

bellerocky 12y ago

Hair touching aside, the amount of space required between people is bordering on the absurd. I'm sorry you feel uncomfortable but two arm lengths of personal space at all times is not something you're entitled to. It's like we all want to live in a bubble. In non-western countries bumping into someone isn't the traumatizing horror it is in the US. It's just about expectations, if people didn't expect to have a vastness of empty air around them they wouldn't suffer PTSD for the rest of the day when someone stood almost within touching distance of them. I'm not saying it's OK to be breathing down people's necks and people should consider the comfort zones of others, but it's kind of extreme in the US. If there's an empty chair next to you, I'll sit in it, and if there's a public urinal available next to yours I'll make use of it. Deal with it.

Squarel 12y ago
That is because different cultures have different customs. In some cultures it is acceptable to hug and put your arm around someone you have not met before, in others, even non-western ones, it is seen as extremely rude. My language teacher when I moved here was telling our mixed nationality class about how in her perception, as you moved further north from the Mediterranean, the personal space people have increases, and how this does not mean people are not comfortable with people near them. This was in the same lesson where we started covering different gestures and how offensive in one is fine in another. Two arms length is a farther than I usually have, but coming within an arms length if I do not know you, especially at a party, unless to tap my shoulder for attention will make me feel uncomfortable. Two arms length requires me to raise my voice to talk to you, which I consider ruder than being close. That aside, the OP reads more like a "How to social engineer" than a how to be polite.
- bellerocky 12y ago
  I wonder if maybe the amount of space required between people contributes to a shared sense of isolation and maybe even entitlement.
- manmal 12y ago
  Regarding "How to social engineer" - I rather read it as a nice way to keep emotional distance to people without being cold. I think I'm gonna try it - I have a tendency to constantly judge people which I want to get rid of anyway.
- philwelch 12y ago
  Distance from the Mediterranean sounds about right. Americans inherit our sense of personal space from the English, more or less. Some cultures are even more extreme: http://i.imgur.com/g2DQgr5.jpg http://i.imgur.com/g2DQgr5.jpg
- tripzilch 12y ago
  > Two arms length requires me to raise my voice to talk to you, which I consider ruder than being close. I've been paying attention to this and have come to the conclusion that this is one of the major factors why Americans are perceived as "loud". As you indicate, this can lead to another type of invasion of personal space (for those who aren't part of that particular conversation).
tacawa 12y ago
Part of being polite is being able to adjust to different cultural norms. With that attitude you might have a tough time in Galway, and do okay in Shanghai. But it's not hard to do okay in both places.
Lambdanaut 12y ago
I've noticed this effect in eastern cultures, particularly in eastern cultures that have large native population densities. I work for an Indian company and all of my co-workers are extremely laid-back and seem to have no sense of personal space whatsover. It's really not a bad thing! They often lean on each other's shoulders and are very huggy. They're not afraid to play-fight and it doesn't become an awkward space-invasion thing. It's just human interaction for them.
manmal 12y ago
Yeah as a central European it strikes me as quite weird when I hear Americans ranting about how people get way too close to them in queues. And I can't relate to the anger they seem to experience as a result. Wikipedia says "Personal space is highly variable, and can be due to cultural differences and personal experiences."[1] - cultural differences, yes, yes. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_space http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_space
maxerickson 12y ago
I see 2 feet, not 2 arms. I also don't see a whole lot of angst over it (in the article), just that it's polite to give people that much space.
angersock 12y ago
That's just straight-up cultural norms; just because it's customary in the US (and maybe even then only in certain areas), doesn't mean it's the same everywhere. To wit: a former coworker of mine was Romanian, and a rather tall fellow. Whenever he wanted to talk about something, he'd sidle up within about a foot and start chatting. This was unnerving because he was probably 6'4 or 6'5, and suddenly he was all up in my business--once I realized that it was just different norms, I was fine with it.
- the-dude 12y ago
  There is a Seinfeld for every social occasion, a bit like xkcd: "The Close Talker" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGVSIkEi3mM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGVSIkEi3mM

mbech 12y ago

I'm all aboard with being pleasant and respectful of others, but find some aspects of this distasteful. Specifically, the portions of the author's "politeness" that involve performance, or adhering to a script I find off-putting. For example: "Just ask the other person what they do, and right after they tell you, say: 'Wow. That sounds hard.' " While it seems that many aspects of "politeness" are intended to trigger pleasant feelings in the other person (which seems harmless enough), I find it hard to be in favor of something so disingenuous. Even when it comes to small talk, I think one can be both respectful and charming without having to fall back on a script and cheapen the interaction.

6d0debc071 12y ago
> I think one can be both respectful and charming without having to fall back on a script and cheapen the interaction. Sure, one can be. But what about with people you find incredibly boring or distasteful? Usually we'd just choose not to interact with those people, but that's not being charming.
- soneca 12y ago
  I would say you should hold off your judgement of value a bit. That is the charming part, to give a chance to people to interest you. Maybe they will too find it boring or distasteful and you will have a chance to be charming giving incentive to they chase their dreams. Or recognize that if they find what they do interesting, that is enough. There is no reason to judge how they experience their job. It is not like it is common to meet a dictator or something. I agree with your parent comment, where a script that includes a fake reaction cheapens the interaction. Be open to diversity is a more honest way to be charming. EDIT: 6d0debc071, for some reason I can't reply once more. But my answer is very much in the line of mbech last comment here. Use something that doesn't involve deception. A question rather than an affirmation.
  - 6d0debc071 12y ago
    > There is no reason to judge how they experience their job. I wasn't saying that you should, indeed some of the most boring people I know find themselves endlessly interesting. The scenario I'm suggesting is closer to: You give people a chance to interest you, your interests don't align with theirs - now what?

AceJohnny2 12y ago

I agree strongly on his thesis, that being polite is a good thing to be and that too many folks are oblivious to its usefulness. I'm not so keen on his writing style, but he makes a number of good points. "Useless in high school but extremely useful later on": yes, school is when you'd expect to learn such skills, but high-school is such a toxic environment that too many folks learn the opposite of politeness (like how to dominate in an interaction, or flee it). "it provides insulation against bad situations" (the gloves/dirty laundry paragraph): very much so. Politeness and etiquette provides guidelines to interact in situations that would instinctively lead to aggression. "it lets you gather information about people": I don't like the manipulation undertones of this part, but it's true that with a little skill you can turn many a conversation into a mine of information and bonding. "touching and personal space": as others have mentioned, this is very flexible across cultures, but I believe that everyone has some level of personal space boundaries. Break these and the other person becomes defensive, uncomfortable.

AceJohnny2 12y ago

It's a stereotype that us geeks are poorly socialized. After the all-too-common years of school bullying and stunted social growth that entails, I was lucky enough to meet the right people and learn better skills of communication and empathy. Politeness for me started as a facade to hide behind, but over time it turned into a tool of empathy and connection. I believe this to be my most useful and powerful skill, far beyond any technical skill I have. I wish more geeks (such as Lennart Poettering to name just one notorious hacker) would learn this.

bowlofpetunias 12y ago

Most of this is only true for Anglo-Saxon values of politeness, which many other cultures will see as insincere, fake, cold, manipulative and even downright insulting. This may not apply to the author, who writes "I am often consumed with a sense of overwhelming love and empathy", but certainly to the vast majority of people who don't have such extreme levels of empathy but use the same tactics. Yes, like many people I will fall for the "that sounds hard" trick, but if I see you pull that multiple times I'll file you under "manipulative cunt" unless I have a good reason to assume you're that one in a million who actually gives a fuck. Because most of us really, really don't.

com2kid 12y ago
> unless I have a good reason to assume you're that one in a million who actually gives a fuck. Because most of us really, really don't. I'd encourage you to re-evaluate that. What if you just so happen to live in a world where most people are nice, kind, and caring?

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

spodek 12y ago

Despite his points about politeness helping him, which I appreciate, politeness is still following rules, aka doing what other people tell you. With social skills, as with any other discipline, merely following rules will make you a craftsperson, not an artist. Artistry comes from knowing the rules so well you can transcend them. I prefer the musician who knows how to improvise sometimes the "wrong" note, the quarterback who shines when the play falls apart, the chess player who develops new moves, ... you get the idea. Personally, I'm more interested in becoming an artist than just following rules. For example, I prefer to find out how I can quickly create deep bonds, which you can do when you break some of the author's rules. I grew up with poor social skills and the geek scientist in me wanted to understand what was going on. Then the geek entrepreneur in me wanted to use what I figured out and develop it as far as I could. Then the business entrepreneur in me wanted to polish it so people would appreciate it. Now I coach people in it too. I feel like the guy wrote a story about how to play scales on the piano, though I enjoyed the writing style. Who wants to stop there? My story about my friend and Jack Nicholson at the U.S. Open illustrates the social value in breaking a dress code (from my blog http://joshuaspodek.com/high-status-living-rules-jack-nicholson-u-s-open http://joshuaspodek.com/high-status-living-rules-jack-nichol...). There are a million other role models of people who shine in breaking rules, but I'll just tell that one story about him: A friend who grew up in Queens and became the senior ball boy at the U.S. Open told me a story about his friend who worked there too. One day he was working at the door to the U.S. Open’s VIP room enforcing the jacket-and-tie dress code. Jack Nicholson came by and started walking into the room wearing shorts and a t-shirt. My friend’s friend, following the rules, in a nervous high school student voice, said “I’m sorry Mr. Nicholson. There is a dress code and I’m afraid I have to ask you to follow it.” With a polite laugh, Jack Nicholson said “I don’t think so,” and continued in. I'll bet Jack Nicholson didn't start breaking rules because he became a star. I'll bet he became a star by breaking rules -- not blindly, but intelligently.

tormeh 12y ago
Oh look, the PUA community is arriving. To be more constructive: There are great benefits to having high status, but it's simply unreachable for most of us, in addition to having hidden downsides. Instead, I would focus on being pleasant to people around you and create good personal relationships.

lnanek2 12y ago

Seems kind of annoying and inefficient to me. If I took someone out on a date and started talking about tumors I'd rather they say to talk about something else than just be polite like he did. Then I could integrate the suggestion and maybe we'd have a good time. He had to wait for years for another chance at something that could have been fixed with thirty seconds of honestly.

molbioguy 12y ago

Politeness serves as a buffer. It gives you time to evaluate the situation and gain more information while keeping you from making a rash judgement - both positive and negative. Later on, it keeps you from unnecessarily making enemies of the people you don't respect but must nevertheless deal with. It works hand in hand with patience, which I see as being in very short supply these days. In my experience, it is an extremely valuable trait.

nktr1 12y ago

Here is the daily Medium article

darrelld 12y ago

Just remember, polite varies from situation to situation. Growing up in the Caribbean when I was a teen meeting other people my age was a very physical thing. You might have someone's arm around your shoulder or get jostled around a little within hours of meeting them. In fact that was how relationships formed. Touching a girls hair, or even giving it a light tug was all part of the flirting game. To be clear it's not like you just met someone and started touching them everywhere and it didn't have to happen everytime, but during the course of conversation if it was appropriate and natural a light touch here and there was just part of how things worked. Moving to the US I found out very quickly that you give most people space unless you were invited in closer, but I've found Europeans that I've met are more open to an appropriate natural touch

rheide 12y ago

Excellent article, and I feel it also applies to me, so I wrote down some thoughts. maqr's comment about this being dangerously close to social engineering rings very true, although I doubt that it's intentional/by choice. Personally I've never had a lot of natural conversational skills, so I find myself falling back to old tricks that work at times when I'm not confident, and sometimes they happen to be tricks that relate to social engineering. I'd like to think that this doesn't make my interactions less genuine. Finding a polite way to proceed through the conversation has not been a problem for me since I learned this. Lately, rather than moving towards politeness, I'm trying to move away from it. The examples of always replying positively to people, never steering towards or even approach hostility is a very, very tiring path to walk. In my experience, it does pay off on the whole, but I've spent a lot of time talking to people that were just never 'interesting' or 'rewarding' to be with, simply because it always seems easier to please than to confront. These days I'm trying to move towards blunt honesty with people as soon as I can (after an initial period of polite conversation to gauge if they'd be comfortable with it). So far, I think the people I know appreciate me more for it, and the people who wouldn't appreciate me for it are not in my life. Or perhaps it just feels good to try something different.

Htsthbjig 12y ago

How to be polite IN NORTH AMERICA. He talks about North American obsession with touch like a normal thing, but in fact it is the exception in the world. Being polite changes with the culture. In Morocco it is totally ok for male friends to hold hands in the street. In South America you touch a lot other people. The same happens in Africa. I had India children and adolescent jump over me just after meeting them just playing. I had played soccer all around Africa and touched shoulders of my playmates, grab their head and hug celebrated with them goals without a problem. Also it was very manly thing to do. In China or Korea people to burp is ok. Using a kleenex on your nose is not. In Spain we kiss women when we meet them and we touch kids we recently met a lot. I used to photograph kids a lot. In the US or UK with the obsession in sex they have they can put you in jail for photographic a kid smiling.

phyllostachys 12y ago
Oh, if only more of my fellow countrymen could get a worldly experience before they settle down. Many people in my hometown hardly go but an hour or two away except on a vacation. I remember how I had a culture class before my first deployment to Iraq (USMC, 2007). I, being someone who has always been interested in other cultures, really liked it. I'm not sure my fellow Marines took to it so quickly but after we came back I think they were better people for it (the class and the deployment). I think your reference to our American Prudish-ness is likely spot on too.

binarysolo 12y ago

I'm surprised at all the approval of this politeness strategy given my modus operandi -- making sure I'm doing interesting-enough things to have a comfortable influx of people, then filter through them by being upfront and asking hard but honest questions. I don't think we realistically can connect with everyone on a meaningful level, and given there's 7-8 billion people out there, a search/filter strategy just seems more reasonable than trying to please everyone. That being said, I am not advocating to the burning of any bridges at all -- as the scenes we walk tend to get smaller and smaller the more focused and specialized they get.