6 ms·

Why would you blame minimum wage for this problem if you weren't implying we should reform or abolish it? Also, the process of proposal and rebuttal you descri

Why would you blame minimum wage for this problem if you weren't implying we should reform or abolish it? Also, the process of proposal and rebuttal you describe has another name: Debate. And the constant rebutting is why it works so well. You attack the other side's idea while defending your own and the best ideas survive the process.

mikeash 12y ago
"Why would you blame minimum wage for this problem if you weren't implying we should reform or abolish it?" Seriously? It's possible to think that something causes a problem while still thinking that it's a net gain. Is that concept actually foreign to you? Do you truly think that you must either see no faults in something or you must think it should be changed? Debate involves a mutual discussion. The process I describe, where a person "rebuts" something that was never said, is not debate, it's simple argument.
- normloman 12y ago
  Yeah, I the fact that you could support it as a necessary evil (benefits outweigh the costs) slipped my mind. My bad. I still thought the post heavily implied something needed to be changed about minimum wage. Debate and argumentation are essentially the same. Debate can imply something formal, and argument can carry a negative connotation. But both are, by definition, adversarial methods of arriving at the truth. They require people to take sides, if just for the sake of argument.
gojomo 12y ago
Mentioning minimum-wage laws as a contributing factor isn't quite 'blaming' them. Also, even minimum-wage proponents can (and often do) admit there are tradeoffs involved with such mandates, they just think those tradeoffs are worth it. You've guessed right that I don't personally think the tradeoffs of price-controls on wages are worth it. (Among other problems, the very young & low-skilled, who get priced out of essential starter jobs, are hurt more than those who remain employed at the higher wages are helped.) But we don't have to agree on that to reach common understandings on other particulars of how employers and employees adjust to constraints.

mikeash 12y ago

"Why would you blame minimum wage for this problem if you weren't implying we should reform or abolish it?" Seriously? It's possible to think that something causes a problem while still thinking that it's a net gain. Is that concept actually foreign to you? Do you truly think that you must either see no faults in something or you must think it should be changed? Debate involves a mutual discussion. The process I describe, where a person "rebuts" something that was never said, is not debate, it's simple argument.

normloman 12y ago
Yeah, I the fact that you could support it as a necessary evil (benefits outweigh the costs) slipped my mind. My bad. I still thought the post heavily implied something needed to be changed about minimum wage. Debate and argumentation are essentially the same. Debate can imply something formal, and argument can carry a negative connotation. But both are, by definition, adversarial methods of arriving at the truth. They require people to take sides, if just for the sake of argument.

gojomo 12y ago

Mentioning minimum-wage laws as a contributing factor isn't quite 'blaming' them. Also, even minimum-wage proponents can (and often do) admit there are tradeoffs involved with such mandates, they just think those tradeoffs are worth it. You've guessed right that I don't personally think the tradeoffs of price-controls on wages are worth it. (Among other problems, the very young & low-skilled, who get priced out of essential starter jobs, are hurt more than those who remain employed at the higher wages are helped.) But we don't have to agree on that to reach common understandings on other particulars of how employers and employees adjust to constraints.