7 ms·

Why do you want to do great things? Seriously, dig into it. When I ask a lot of people in startups this question and dig long enough, it comes down to money--

Why do you want to do great things? Seriously, dig into it. When I ask a lot of people in startups this question and dig long enough, it comes down to money-- they want to be rich, they want to be free. Fact: I've met these rich/free people and they are largely working their asses off to get more rich (and presumably more free?). The ones who make it (largely) LOVE THE GAME. The few who get rich somehow but don't actually love the game of getting rich are listlessly complaining about being unhappy. You don't love the game, it seems. The way to be happy/satisfied is to find the game that you love or learn to love the game you're playing. The latter is often what to focus on-- there people with much less interesting jobs that are satisfied with them. Whatever job you have, figure out how to be freakin' awesome at it and opportunities fall into your lap- trust me. Or be the guy who gets by, can't be happy, is always looking out the window. All that said, don't settle for a shitty job. Get one where you're surrounded by people who impress you in an industry/market that has potential. That's where you'll find your next co-founder. If you've got great ideas, start side projects. They turn into businesses all the time. Reduce your burn rate ruthlessly and save $. Seriously, your car/house/clothes are too nice, and you have them because society makes you feel less successful if you don't. Happiness and stuff have virtually no correlation. Get to the point where you're downright smug about your burn rate. Smirk at people who drive BMWs. Remember that a million years of evolution has made humanity naturally discontent-- do you think happiness/contentedness is a survival trait? Add to that the external pressure of peers who make it big, do "great things", and the river of marketing telling you that you need fancier watches, shinier cars, the newest iPhone. Being happy/content takes smarts and discipline that most people simply can't manage. Be one of the ones who can.

josho 12y ago
I'm seriously considering framing your post. It is refreshing to receive reminders that working harder to consume more products does not make us happier.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- angersock 12y ago
  Counterpoint: America's middle-class is increasingly eroded and the nation as a whole split into those with fuck-you money and those without. Not having money is not a good long-term strategy as we slide into well-branded feudalism.
  - webwright 12y ago
    Not to discount the very real problem of the eroding middle class -but spending/saving habits in America are real problems. Half of Americans are saving nothing [1]. 27% of households than make over $100k/yr say the can't afford everything they need [2]. Average house size in the US has about doubled since the 60s [3]. [1] http://time.com/98152/americas-savings-city/ http://time.com/98152/americas-savings-city/ [2] http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/schor-overspent.html http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/schor-overspent.html [3] http://www.aei-ideas.org/2014/02/todays-new-homes-are-1000-square-feet-larger-than-in-1973-and-the-living-space-per-person-has-doubled-over-last-40-years/ http://www.aei-ideas.org/2014/02/todays-new-homes-are-1000-s...
    - cellis 12y ago
      Why save? It's actually a provably bad idea to save money when the rich/government are actively undermining your savings and livelihood. Better to enjoy your money or try to actually invest it (note, not the same as saving).
      - lutusp 12y ago
        > It's actually a provably bad idea to save money when the rich/government are actively undermining your savings and livelihood. This is like arguing that it's pointless to breathe because we'll all end up dead anyway. Even in the face of governmental mischief and deliberate inflation, saving or investing money may still represent the best of competing choices. I emphasize I'm not talking about a bank savings account -- that's really a losing proposition.
      - mahyarm 12y ago
        When people say save, they also mean your brokerage accounts full of index funds.
- norenjr 12y ago
  No offense, but this would kill 90% of the consumer based start ups we are all working on. Endless consumption is what has made America the best place in the world to start a business. Just a thought.
awakened 12y ago
$ is freedom, but so is lack of debt. Zero debt + $ = great freedom. The edge of modern Western society (those not part of the main rat race) is a place where you can truly be free and happy, but you'll be seen as fringe. Never go into debt. Eat beans and rice. Work summer jobs as a river boat guide. Write poems. Watch the stars. Help others find peace. Just be true to yourself and don't let modern society set expectations or guide your life.
- electromagnetic 12y ago
  Financial independence is something that's been purposefully pushed to the fringe of society. We've got very few people who fit the category of subsistence farmers in the West even though we have the potential for their to be a lot. The main reason why businesses don't grow is regularly cited as the founder/owner refusing to give up control and micromanaging. One person can only micromanage so much.
  - seanflyon 12y ago
    Is "subsistence farmer" a metaphor for financially independent? Otherwise I don't see why people would want to be subsistence farmers.
- allochthon 12y ago
  It's good to follow one's dreams. But there is a line between living in the moment, on one side, and not planning for the future, on the other. Youngsters are in for a rough ride later on if they are too romantic about practicalities and do not take well-conceived steps towards financial independence later in life. This is true whether they have it in them to become superstars or are simply hoping to do what they do well.
- sosborn 12y ago
  >Never go into debt. This is bad advice. Sure, don't go into debt that you can't properly service, but I've made some good money that started out as debt (large investments, etc).
aggronn 12y ago
To emphasize the last paragraph: You don't become rich by obtaining lots of money. You get rich by saving lots of money. You can become financially independent before you turn 40 making $50k/year at a 9-5. You don't need to start a company, or change the world. You just need to get to a point where your investment income is equal to your expenses, and the only way to do that is by limiting your expenses.
- electromagnetic 12y ago
  You can become financially independent with considerably less money. I know someone who at 30 sold up, moved way into the boonies on a hobby farm. He's got enough in the bank that he can live off the interest. Now he just potters around his farm. Grows all his own vegetables and fruit, raises chickens and cows and is getting "richer" by not spending all his interest. So him and his wife get to spend all their free time with their kids, which is what they wanted. The reason most people will never become rich is simply because they increase their expenses the more they make.
  - wellboy 12y ago
    Yes, they are financially independant to remain where they are, but they are not financially independent to do do great things, e.g. they couldn't start a company, buy a new house, send their kids to college. (except your friend became a millionaire) This financial independence normally is temporary and normally doesn't last long. Humans crave for change, living on a pottery farm is really nice for the first 1-2 years, however, for the rest of your life? Humans are not built for that.
    - christiangenco 12y ago
      On the contrary, I'd argue that it's much easier for them to do those things because they have considerably more time, free capital, and flexibility than non-financially independent people.
      - wellboy 12y ago
nastygibbon 12y ago
Amen.
refurb 12y ago
Remember that a million years of evolution has made humanity naturally discontent That about sums it up. The drive to always want more is just how humans are. If it wasn't, the human condition would never improve. However, you need to recognize it for what it is and don't let it control your own happiness. The older I get the more I realize that doing what I want to do now is much more rewarding that doing what I think will make me happy years from now.
- JoiDegn 12y ago
  I love that first line. In my opinion it neatly sums up a few things about human behaviour.
- code4life 12y ago
  To be fair, if you believe in evolution, thinking of things in terms of improvement is very subjective. Evolution isn't selecting for improvement, it's selecting for survival, which may or may not be correlated with your vision of improvement. Think of cockroaches. From a christian perspective, the natural discontent stems from the fallen nature of man. You're worldly accomplishments will never be able to satisfy that discontentment, as the two areas are unrelated.
  - jcromartie 12y ago
    So many straw men here... Nobody is saying that evolution is selecting for some nebulous sense of "improvement." Reproductive success leads to traits being passed on to successive generations, and general survival is merely one precondition to reproduction. The human impulse to jockey for status is a reproductive strategy.
- samspot 12y ago
  That line sounds nice, but I don't think it makes sense if you break it down. You are basically saying that discontent people reproduce more than content people. Is there any evidence of that?
  - JonnieCache 12y ago
kevinbluer 12y ago
THIS is why I read / love HN!
jawerty 12y ago
I want to somehow pin this post. Very well put.
buckbova 12y ago
> Seriously, your car/house/clothes are too nice, and you have them because society makes you feel less successful if you don't. Stuff makes me happy. Moving from a tiny apartment with a small everything to a spacious house made me much happier. It's comfortable. I now have a wonderful kitchen to cook, which I enjoy doing, that I just couldn't do as well before. I have a view out my large bay windows. It's great. Driving a nice car is awesome, especially if you commute longer distances or like road trips. I enjoy a comfortable luxury sedan with power. I'm much happier with nice things. Society isn't telling me I like my large flat screen tv. I am because it looks stunning on my wall. I agree with what others say here about debt though. Don't go into debt to buy yourself a bunch of crap you don't need.
- mcguire 12y ago
  On the other hand, how much of your time are you willing to spend for that house, car, and TV? Because time is the commodity you're selling.
  - buckbova 12y ago
    Despite enjoying my work for the most part, I'm willing to trade less than 25% of my time. Typical hours worked in a year: 2000 52 weeks - 2 weeks vacation/sick/holiday (most have more) * 40 =2000 hrs 2000 / (365*24)=.228 Seems fair.
    - webwright 12y ago
      Probably ought to math that out with waking hours. And add in your commute. And 2000 hours = 38/week. I don't know many folks who work that little, though I supposed vacation days ought to factor into it (the average american takes 4.1). Let's nudge it up to 2400 or so. 2400 hours worked + 260 hours commuting (US avg. is 25.5min - probably average higher in startup cities?) Let's say 17 waking hours (even though people who get 7 hours of sleep are proven to be less effective on a lot of fronts, it's certainly plenty common). (edit: average hours worked/week in US for salaried workers is 46: http://www.prdaily.com/Main/Articles/Most_employed_Americans_work_more_than_40_hours_pe_12123.aspx http://www.prdaily.com/Main/Articles/Most_employed_Americans...) 2660 / 365*17 = 43%
snikeris 12y ago
If you're looking for a good read on some of the principles discussed in the parent, Early Retirement Extreme [1], is an excellent resource. [1] http://www.amazon.com/dp/145360121X/?tag=oildepletiove-20 http://www.amazon.com/dp/145360121X/?tag=oildepletiove-20
gopher1 12y ago
Money does correlate to happiness, so long as you have enough of it to live comfortably. Beyond that point, additional money does not increase happiness.
arisAlexis 12y ago
I disagree and think that people in the western world who are not starving want to do great things for other reasons which consist of: pride, ego boost, interest to face difficulties and overcome them, make history, find a goal and pursue it, mental challenge, feeling like they need to fulfill a purpose in life and many others. For me money is one of the most insignificant ones.

josho 12y ago

I'm seriously considering framing your post. It is refreshing to receive reminders that working harder to consume more products does not make us happier.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
angersock 12y ago
Counterpoint: America's middle-class is increasingly eroded and the nation as a whole split into those with fuck-you money and those without. Not having money is not a good long-term strategy as we slide into well-branded feudalism.
- webwright 12y ago
  Not to discount the very real problem of the eroding middle class -but spending/saving habits in America are real problems. Half of Americans are saving nothing [1]. 27% of households than make over $100k/yr say the can't afford everything they need [2]. Average house size in the US has about doubled since the 60s [3]. [1] http://time.com/98152/americas-savings-city/ http://time.com/98152/americas-savings-city/ [2] http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/schor-overspent.html http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/schor-overspent.html [3] http://www.aei-ideas.org/2014/02/todays-new-homes-are-1000-square-feet-larger-than-in-1973-and-the-living-space-per-person-has-doubled-over-last-40-years/ http://www.aei-ideas.org/2014/02/todays-new-homes-are-1000-s...
  - cellis 12y ago
    Why save? It's actually a provably bad idea to save money when the rich/government are actively undermining your savings and livelihood. Better to enjoy your money or try to actually invest it (note, not the same as saving).
    - lutusp 12y ago
      > It's actually a provably bad idea to save money when the rich/government are actively undermining your savings and livelihood. This is like arguing that it's pointless to breathe because we'll all end up dead anyway. Even in the face of governmental mischief and deliberate inflation, saving or investing money may still represent the best of competing choices. I emphasize I'm not talking about a bank savings account -- that's really a losing proposition.
    - mahyarm 12y ago
      When people say save, they also mean your brokerage accounts full of index funds.
norenjr 12y ago
No offense, but this would kill 90% of the consumer based start ups we are all working on. Endless consumption is what has made America the best place in the world to start a business. Just a thought.

awakened 12y ago

$ is freedom, but so is lack of debt. Zero debt + $ = great freedom. The edge of modern Western society (those not part of the main rat race) is a place where you can truly be free and happy, but you'll be seen as fringe. Never go into debt. Eat beans and rice. Work summer jobs as a river boat guide. Write poems. Watch the stars. Help others find peace. Just be true to yourself and don't let modern society set expectations or guide your life.

electromagnetic 12y ago
Financial independence is something that's been purposefully pushed to the fringe of society. We've got very few people who fit the category of subsistence farmers in the West even though we have the potential for their to be a lot. The main reason why businesses don't grow is regularly cited as the founder/owner refusing to give up control and micromanaging. One person can only micromanage so much.
- seanflyon 12y ago
  Is "subsistence farmer" a metaphor for financially independent? Otherwise I don't see why people would want to be subsistence farmers.
allochthon 12y ago
It's good to follow one's dreams. But there is a line between living in the moment, on one side, and not planning for the future, on the other. Youngsters are in for a rough ride later on if they are too romantic about practicalities and do not take well-conceived steps towards financial independence later in life. This is true whether they have it in them to become superstars or are simply hoping to do what they do well.
sosborn 12y ago
>Never go into debt. This is bad advice. Sure, don't go into debt that you can't properly service, but I've made some good money that started out as debt (large investments, etc).

aggronn 12y ago

To emphasize the last paragraph: You don't become rich by obtaining lots of money. You get rich by saving lots of money. You can become financially independent before you turn 40 making $50k/year at a 9-5. You don't need to start a company, or change the world. You just need to get to a point where your investment income is equal to your expenses, and the only way to do that is by limiting your expenses.

electromagnetic 12y ago
You can become financially independent with considerably less money. I know someone who at 30 sold up, moved way into the boonies on a hobby farm. He's got enough in the bank that he can live off the interest. Now he just potters around his farm. Grows all his own vegetables and fruit, raises chickens and cows and is getting "richer" by not spending all his interest. So him and his wife get to spend all their free time with their kids, which is what they wanted. The reason most people will never become rich is simply because they increase their expenses the more they make.
- wellboy 12y ago
  Yes, they are financially independant to remain where they are, but they are not financially independent to do do great things, e.g. they couldn't start a company, buy a new house, send their kids to college. (except your friend became a millionaire) This financial independence normally is temporary and normally doesn't last long. Humans crave for change, living on a pottery farm is really nice for the first 1-2 years, however, for the rest of your life? Humans are not built for that.
  - christiangenco 12y ago
    On the contrary, I'd argue that it's much easier for them to do those things because they have considerably more time, free capital, and flexibility than non-financially independent people.
    - wellboy 12y ago

nastygibbon 12y ago

Amen.

refurb 12y ago

Remember that a million years of evolution has made humanity naturally discontent That about sums it up. The drive to always want more is just how humans are. If it wasn't, the human condition would never improve. However, you need to recognize it for what it is and don't let it control your own happiness. The older I get the more I realize that doing what I want to do now is much more rewarding that doing what I think will make me happy years from now.

JoiDegn 12y ago
I love that first line. In my opinion it neatly sums up a few things about human behaviour.
code4life 12y ago
To be fair, if you believe in evolution, thinking of things in terms of improvement is very subjective. Evolution isn't selecting for improvement, it's selecting for survival, which may or may not be correlated with your vision of improvement. Think of cockroaches. From a christian perspective, the natural discontent stems from the fallen nature of man. You're worldly accomplishments will never be able to satisfy that discontentment, as the two areas are unrelated.
- jcromartie 12y ago
  So many straw men here... Nobody is saying that evolution is selecting for some nebulous sense of "improvement." Reproductive success leads to traits being passed on to successive generations, and general survival is merely one precondition to reproduction. The human impulse to jockey for status is a reproductive strategy.
samspot 12y ago
That line sounds nice, but I don't think it makes sense if you break it down. You are basically saying that discontent people reproduce more than content people. Is there any evidence of that?
- JonnieCache 12y ago

kevinbluer 12y ago

THIS is why I read / love HN!

jawerty 12y ago

I want to somehow pin this post. Very well put.

buckbova 12y ago

> Seriously, your car/house/clothes are too nice, and you have them because society makes you feel less successful if you don't. Stuff makes me happy. Moving from a tiny apartment with a small everything to a spacious house made me much happier. It's comfortable. I now have a wonderful kitchen to cook, which I enjoy doing, that I just couldn't do as well before. I have a view out my large bay windows. It's great. Driving a nice car is awesome, especially if you commute longer distances or like road trips. I enjoy a comfortable luxury sedan with power. I'm much happier with nice things. Society isn't telling me I like my large flat screen tv. I am because it looks stunning on my wall. I agree with what others say here about debt though. Don't go into debt to buy yourself a bunch of crap you don't need.

mcguire 12y ago
On the other hand, how much of your time are you willing to spend for that house, car, and TV? Because time is the commodity you're selling.
- buckbova 12y ago
  Despite enjoying my work for the most part, I'm willing to trade less than 25% of my time. Typical hours worked in a year: 2000 52 weeks - 2 weeks vacation/sick/holiday (most have more) * 40 =2000 hrs 2000 / (365*24)=.228 Seems fair.
  - webwright 12y ago
    Probably ought to math that out with waking hours. And add in your commute. And 2000 hours = 38/week. I don't know many folks who work that little, though I supposed vacation days ought to factor into it (the average american takes 4.1). Let's nudge it up to 2400 or so. 2400 hours worked + 260 hours commuting (US avg. is 25.5min - probably average higher in startup cities?) Let's say 17 waking hours (even though people who get 7 hours of sleep are proven to be less effective on a lot of fronts, it's certainly plenty common). (edit: average hours worked/week in US for salaried workers is 46: http://www.prdaily.com/Main/Articles/Most_employed_Americans_work_more_than_40_hours_pe_12123.aspx http://www.prdaily.com/Main/Articles/Most_employed_Americans...) 2660 / 365*17 = 43%

snikeris 12y ago

If you're looking for a good read on some of the principles discussed in the parent, Early Retirement Extreme [1], is an excellent resource. [1] http://www.amazon.com/dp/145360121X/?tag=oildepletiove-20 http://www.amazon.com/dp/145360121X/?tag=oildepletiove-20

gopher1 12y ago

Money does correlate to happiness, so long as you have enough of it to live comfortably. Beyond that point, additional money does not increase happiness.

arisAlexis 12y ago

I disagree and think that people in the western world who are not starving want to do great things for other reasons which consist of: pride, ego boost, interest to face difficulties and overcome them, make history, find a goal and pursue it, mental challenge, feeling like they need to fulfill a purpose in life and many others. For me money is one of the most insignificant ones.