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I have to wonder about this quote: > As a new entrant we're bringing much-needed competition to a market that hasn't changed in years. What does a San Francis

I have to wonder about this quote: > As a new entrant we're bringing much-needed competition to a market that hasn't changed in years. What does a San Francisco startup knows about the taxi situation in Berlin? Uber has often been well received in cities where taxi service is inefficient, but are berliners really unhappy with the service? Does Uber know that taxis in Berlin are used mostly by tourists, and therefore are not that hard to catch? Maybe Uber has spent a lot of time researching the German market, or maybe they are following Walmart steps[1] in applying US notions to a foreign market. But after living in Berlin for a year, I have to wonder: if Uber's free-for-all approach clashes against Germany's love for paperwork, whose fault is it? [1] http://www.dw.de/worlds-biggest-retailer-wal-mart-closes-up-shop-in-germany/a-2112746-1 http://www.dw.de/worlds-biggest-retailer-wal-mart-closes-up-...

oleganza 12y ago
Every person who takes Uber ride votes for Uber and against other taxis. If berliners are all happy with taxis, Uber wouldn't earn a penny there. But since they do and are willing to invest into challenging the ban in court, it's an indicator of existing demand for Uber. Now who is this Berlin "authority" to decide for people how they should travel from point A to point B? I don't care if Uber is from SF, Berlin or Hong Kong. They are not forcing people to pay them unlike governments that extract taxes and then tell taxpayers how they should live.
- claudius 12y ago
  > Every person who takes Uber ride votes for Uber and against other taxis. Or maybe every person who takes an Uber ride has been fraudulently deceived into assuming that their ride was insured, approved by the appropriate authorities and generally safe. > Now who is this Berlin "authority" to decide for people how they should travel from point A to point B? It’s the appropriate authority relevant for local public transport, legitimised by general elections and bound by laws passed by the democratic institutions of the state of Berlin and the FRG. > I don't care if Uber is from SF, Berlin or Hong Kong. They are not forcing people to pay them unlike governments that extract taxes and then tell taxpayers how they should live. They also incentivise drivers to use their cars while not covered by any insurance, hence essentially endangering the general public. They furthermore try to appear as a legitimate and legal business while failing to meet the requirements necessary to transport persons commercially.
  - aianus 12y ago
    What if I don't care if I'm insured while in an Uber? I don't want to pay for that shit.
    - Xylakant 12y ago
      Then don't. Just walk. And never use public transport again. Or roads. Or any service that gets paid by taxes and fees.
      - aianus 12y ago
        This has nothing to do with taxes. This is the German government thinking it's their responsibility to protect me from myself. It's arrogant and obnoxious. If I want to get into an Uber knowing I'm not getting any money if I get hurt, it's my prerogative.
        anon1385 12y ago
        Somebody who wants to drive around without insurance calling others arrogant and obnoxious. You couldn't make it up.
        aianus 12y ago
        As a passenger I don't care if the Uber driver has insurance covering me and I should be able to choose to ride in one anyways.
        Xylakant 12y ago
        No, this is the german population that requires that if your uber driver crashes into a bicycle rider (me) on the road, that I get paid for my injury. It's not about you, it's not arrogant that I want to be compensated if I get hurt and it's certainly not obnoxious.
        aianus 12y ago
- Xylakant 12y ago
  The authority deciding that is the German Transportation Law (Personenbeförderungsgesetz). In germany, cabs and cab-like services are treated as part of the public transport system, much as busses and trams and trains and subways. The license holder has certain rights, but the license also comes with certain obligations, for example the requirement to provide service to any person asking, to provide a minimum amount of service (i.e. make sure enough cabs are available) etc. Uber tries to skirt the obligations while still retaining the benefits and calls that "disruption". They get slapped down for that over and over again and then complain rather than fulfilling the obligations and then compete. If they don't like that, well, ignore the market.
- probably_wrong 12y ago
  > Now who is this Berlin "authority" to decide for people how they should travel from point A to point B? I think this is a great point to illustrate the difference in mentality between Germany and the US. From what I've experienced, people in Germany trust their government to make sure things are the way they should be. As an example: every apartment is required by law to provide a certain amount of natural light. You literally cannot offer an apartment without windows, nor with windows that lead into a wall. And you could say, like I did, "but what if I want to live in a windowless apartment because it's cheaper?". The German answer to that is "No, every person deserves decent living conditions, so you are not allowed to offer something that is not decent, even if there is people willing to pay for it". That's the German way of doing things, and germans seem pretty happy about it. Of course, this line of reasoning wouldn't fly in the States. I think Uber failed to understand that the German government will not allow a service that does not meet the approved standards, even if there's people willing to pay for it, because as a German citizen you are entitled to (and implicitly expect) a certain quality of service (insurance, availability) that Uber is not providing.
  - mnutt 12y ago
    For what it's worth, most US cities I know of have certificate of occupancy standards requiring bedrooms to have minimum amounts of natural light.
    - viggity 12y ago
      I'm not sure that they're actually after natural light. Windows, yes. Natural light, probably not. In order to be considered a bedroom, you need a way of exiting the room in the event of a fire. Windows do that. In areas with basements, the window needs to be an egress window so someone can actually crawl out. https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1920&bih=1017&q=egress+window https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1...
- dreamweapon 12y ago
  If berliners are all happy with taxis, Uber wouldn't earn a penny there. I think you meant to say "If Berliners were so happy ..." Now who is this Berlin "authority" to decide for people how they should travel from point A to point B? It's called "State Department of Civil and Regulatory Affairs", in English, according to the article. Which perhaps you could have read more carefully.
- Vik1ng 12y ago
  Every person who takes Uber ride votes for Uber and against other taxis. I really don't know what Uber could do to make my cab rides better. All cabs I had in Germany were clean and in good shape, often even a Mercedes http://pressemitteilung.ws/files/Taxi_%C2%A9%20Stefan%20Richter%20-%20Fotolia.com_.jpg http://pressemitteilung.ws/files/Taxi_%C2%A9%20Stefan%20Rich... it's an indicator of existing demand for Uber. Not it isn't. First of all they have to do it, because if they take a loss here they chances are something similar might happen in other states and countries. Also they know they can compete if cabs have to stick to regulations and they don't. If you have flexible pricing or can deny a ride, but a cab can't you have an advantage.
tormeh 12y ago
Well, excessive paperwork is always bad. But yeah, between public transport and biking I don't think taxis are of any great concern here.
dreamweapon 12y ago
What does a San Francisco startup knows about the taxi situation in Berlin? Nothing, of course. They pretend to know. It's just the way they roll.
- raverbashing 12y ago
  Exactly this This happens in the US in a certain measure, but it's especially true for the SF "illuminati" that think every problem in the world can be solved with an iPhone app and a TED talk
  - gkya 12y ago
    Have to add that they assume the whole world is the USA. The whole world is not USA; at least, not yet.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > it's especially true for the SF "illuminati" that think every problem in the world can be solved with an iPhone app and a TED talk I think there is an important distinction that needs to be made between believing something and having a profit-making scheme which centers around getting other people to believe it.
    - raverbashing 12y ago
      True, it's an important distinction.
Grue3 12y ago
Have you perhaps considered they have an office in Berlin which is staffed by Berliners, and also the drivers who most certainly aren't from San Francisco either.
- Xylakant 12y ago
  Have you perhaps considered that the few people in Berlin, even including the drivers (and even including their passengers) represent but a tiny tiny fraction of the people in Berlin or Germany? Probably that sample is not exactly representative either. I mean, Walmart also had an office in Germany and employees, even much more than Uber will likely ever have and retired after clashing multiple time with German labor laws. It took a couple of years, but they eventually packed up and left because their way if doing business was incompatible with what a majority of us regard as proper business ethics. Disruption and all.
  - CaptainZapp 12y ago
    Walmart's Germany problem started with the fact that they installed an American director, who didn't speak a word of German. You may get away with this in Switzerland, but to try this in Germany is just outlandishly stupid.
    - Xylakant 12y ago
      Yes, that's where it started. It could have been forgiven. But clashing with the labor unions over obviously illegal practices, now, that's what I call outlandishly stupid. Especially in an already tight market.
    - raverbashing 12y ago
      As they say: "Culture eats strategy for breakfast"
  - Vik1ng 12y ago
    They also did not at all understand what German customers wanted. Like no I don't want you do fucking bag my groceries. And no I don't need some strange greeter when I enter the store. WTF..
mason240 12y ago
>are berliners really unhappy with the service? It's quite simple: If they were happy with the status qup, Uber would not be able to gain a foothold. If they are not happy, Uber will be a popular alternative.
- Xylakant 12y ago
  No, actually it's simple but in a different way. Either Uber complies with the regs, then it will be allowed to compete or it doesn't, the being popular won't help.

oleganza 12y ago

Every person who takes Uber ride votes for Uber and against other taxis. If berliners are all happy with taxis, Uber wouldn't earn a penny there. But since they do and are willing to invest into challenging the ban in court, it's an indicator of existing demand for Uber. Now who is this Berlin "authority" to decide for people how they should travel from point A to point B? I don't care if Uber is from SF, Berlin or Hong Kong. They are not forcing people to pay them unlike governments that extract taxes and then tell taxpayers how they should live.

claudius 12y ago
> Every person who takes Uber ride votes for Uber and against other taxis. Or maybe every person who takes an Uber ride has been fraudulently deceived into assuming that their ride was insured, approved by the appropriate authorities and generally safe. > Now who is this Berlin "authority" to decide for people how they should travel from point A to point B? It’s the appropriate authority relevant for local public transport, legitimised by general elections and bound by laws passed by the democratic institutions of the state of Berlin and the FRG. > I don't care if Uber is from SF, Berlin or Hong Kong. They are not forcing people to pay them unlike governments that extract taxes and then tell taxpayers how they should live. They also incentivise drivers to use their cars while not covered by any insurance, hence essentially endangering the general public. They furthermore try to appear as a legitimate and legal business while failing to meet the requirements necessary to transport persons commercially.
- aianus 12y ago
  What if I don't care if I'm insured while in an Uber? I don't want to pay for that shit.
  - Xylakant 12y ago
    Then don't. Just walk. And never use public transport again. Or roads. Or any service that gets paid by taxes and fees.
    - aianus 12y ago
      This has nothing to do with taxes. This is the German government thinking it's their responsibility to protect me from myself. It's arrogant and obnoxious. If I want to get into an Uber knowing I'm not getting any money if I get hurt, it's my prerogative.
      - anon1385 12y ago
        Somebody who wants to drive around without insurance calling others arrogant and obnoxious. You couldn't make it up.
        aianus 12y ago
        As a passenger I don't care if the Uber driver has insurance covering me and I should be able to choose to ride in one anyways.
      - Xylakant 12y ago
        No, this is the german population that requires that if your uber driver crashes into a bicycle rider (me) on the road, that I get paid for my injury. It's not about you, it's not arrogant that I want to be compensated if I get hurt and it's certainly not obnoxious.
        aianus 12y ago
Xylakant 12y ago
The authority deciding that is the German Transportation Law (Personenbeförderungsgesetz). In germany, cabs and cab-like services are treated as part of the public transport system, much as busses and trams and trains and subways. The license holder has certain rights, but the license also comes with certain obligations, for example the requirement to provide service to any person asking, to provide a minimum amount of service (i.e. make sure enough cabs are available) etc. Uber tries to skirt the obligations while still retaining the benefits and calls that "disruption". They get slapped down for that over and over again and then complain rather than fulfilling the obligations and then compete. If they don't like that, well, ignore the market.
probably_wrong 12y ago
> Now who is this Berlin "authority" to decide for people how they should travel from point A to point B? I think this is a great point to illustrate the difference in mentality between Germany and the US. From what I've experienced, people in Germany trust their government to make sure things are the way they should be. As an example: every apartment is required by law to provide a certain amount of natural light. You literally cannot offer an apartment without windows, nor with windows that lead into a wall. And you could say, like I did, "but what if I want to live in a windowless apartment because it's cheaper?". The German answer to that is "No, every person deserves decent living conditions, so you are not allowed to offer something that is not decent, even if there is people willing to pay for it". That's the German way of doing things, and germans seem pretty happy about it. Of course, this line of reasoning wouldn't fly in the States. I think Uber failed to understand that the German government will not allow a service that does not meet the approved standards, even if there's people willing to pay for it, because as a German citizen you are entitled to (and implicitly expect) a certain quality of service (insurance, availability) that Uber is not providing.
- mnutt 12y ago
  For what it's worth, most US cities I know of have certificate of occupancy standards requiring bedrooms to have minimum amounts of natural light.
  - viggity 12y ago
    I'm not sure that they're actually after natural light. Windows, yes. Natural light, probably not. In order to be considered a bedroom, you need a way of exiting the room in the event of a fire. Windows do that. In areas with basements, the window needs to be an egress window so someone can actually crawl out. https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1920&bih=1017&q=egress+window https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1...
dreamweapon 12y ago
If berliners are all happy with taxis, Uber wouldn't earn a penny there. I think you meant to say "If Berliners were so happy ..." Now who is this Berlin "authority" to decide for people how they should travel from point A to point B? It's called "State Department of Civil and Regulatory Affairs", in English, according to the article. Which perhaps you could have read more carefully.
Vik1ng 12y ago
Every person who takes Uber ride votes for Uber and against other taxis. I really don't know what Uber could do to make my cab rides better. All cabs I had in Germany were clean and in good shape, often even a Mercedes http://pressemitteilung.ws/files/Taxi_%C2%A9%20Stefan%20Richter%20-%20Fotolia.com_.jpg http://pressemitteilung.ws/files/Taxi_%C2%A9%20Stefan%20Rich... it's an indicator of existing demand for Uber. Not it isn't. First of all they have to do it, because if they take a loss here they chances are something similar might happen in other states and countries. Also they know they can compete if cabs have to stick to regulations and they don't. If you have flexible pricing or can deny a ride, but a cab can't you have an advantage.

tormeh 12y ago

Well, excessive paperwork is always bad. But yeah, between public transport and biking I don't think taxis are of any great concern here.

dreamweapon 12y ago

What does a San Francisco startup knows about the taxi situation in Berlin? Nothing, of course. They pretend to know. It's just the way they roll.

raverbashing 12y ago
Exactly this This happens in the US in a certain measure, but it's especially true for the SF "illuminati" that think every problem in the world can be solved with an iPhone app and a TED talk
- gkya 12y ago
  Have to add that they assume the whole world is the USA. The whole world is not USA; at least, not yet.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > it's especially true for the SF "illuminati" that think every problem in the world can be solved with an iPhone app and a TED talk I think there is an important distinction that needs to be made between believing something and having a profit-making scheme which centers around getting other people to believe it.
  - raverbashing 12y ago
    True, it's an important distinction.

Grue3 12y ago

Have you perhaps considered they have an office in Berlin which is staffed by Berliners, and also the drivers who most certainly aren't from San Francisco either.

Xylakant 12y ago
Have you perhaps considered that the few people in Berlin, even including the drivers (and even including their passengers) represent but a tiny tiny fraction of the people in Berlin or Germany? Probably that sample is not exactly representative either. I mean, Walmart also had an office in Germany and employees, even much more than Uber will likely ever have and retired after clashing multiple time with German labor laws. It took a couple of years, but they eventually packed up and left because their way if doing business was incompatible with what a majority of us regard as proper business ethics. Disruption and all.
- CaptainZapp 12y ago
  Walmart's Germany problem started with the fact that they installed an American director, who didn't speak a word of German. You may get away with this in Switzerland, but to try this in Germany is just outlandishly stupid.
  - Xylakant 12y ago
    Yes, that's where it started. It could have been forgiven. But clashing with the labor unions over obviously illegal practices, now, that's what I call outlandishly stupid. Especially in an already tight market.
  - raverbashing 12y ago
    As they say: "Culture eats strategy for breakfast"
- Vik1ng 12y ago
  They also did not at all understand what German customers wanted. Like no I don't want you do fucking bag my groceries. And no I don't need some strange greeter when I enter the store. WTF..

mason240 12y ago

>are berliners really unhappy with the service? It's quite simple: If they were happy with the status qup, Uber would not be able to gain a foothold. If they are not happy, Uber will be a popular alternative.

Xylakant 12y ago
No, actually it's simple but in a different way. Either Uber complies with the regs, then it will be allowed to compete or it doesn't, the being popular won't help.