4 ms·

Really? Europe has had low rates of private gun ownerships for many decades. However, police has yet to turn into the Gestapo (consider for instance the UK, whe

Really? Europe has had low rates of private gun ownerships for many decades. However, police has yet to turn into the Gestapo (consider for instance the UK, where the majority of the police force does not even carry firearms). On the other hand, it must be a lot easier to justify the use of snipers and military vehicles by the police when many civilians carry (possibly concealed) weaponry.

arethuza 12y ago
One thing that is worth noting about the arming of UK police is that the overwhelming majority of police here don't want to be armed: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398
- mercurial 12y ago
  Don't miss the very interesting historical perspective in the middle of the article: > Arming the force would, say opponents, undermine the principle of policing by consent - the notion that the force owes its primary duty to the public, rather than to the state, as in other countries. > This owes much to the historical foundations of British criminal justice, says Peter Waddington, professor of social policy at the University of Wolverhampton. > "A great deal of what we take as normal about policing was set out in the early 19th Century," he says. > "When Robert Peel formed the Metropolitan Police there was a very strong fear of the military - the masses feared the new force would be oppressive." > A force that did not routinely carry firearms - and wore blue rather than red, which was associated with the infantry - was part of this effort to distinguish the early "Peelers" from the Army, Waddington says. That's widely different from the Robocop mentality at play in the States (from what I can tell from the article).
fractalsea 12y ago
If anyone is curious about numbers. In 2012, out of 134,100 police officers in England and Wales [1], 6,756 are authorised to carry firearms [2]. So roughly 5%. Even if a police officer is authorised to carry a firearm, they must be authorised to used it. The same document states that firearms were authorised in 12,550 times in that year, and only used 5 times. [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-workforce-england-and-wales-31-march-2013/police-workforce-england-and-wales-31-march-2013 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-workforce-... [2] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/statistics-on-police-use-of-firearms-in-england-and-wales-2011-2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/statistics-on-pol...
baddox 12y ago
The actual Gestapo was only 70 years ago. I'm referring to a longer historical time frame. Obviously most of Western Europe has been stable since World War II.
- mercurial 12y ago
  What time period do you have in mind then? I don't really see, say, during the middle ages, or further back during the Antiquity, a period during which the population was helpless in the face of state security forces and widely oppressed.

arethuza 12y ago

One thing that is worth noting about the arming of UK police is that the overwhelming majority of police here don't want to be armed: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398

mercurial 12y ago
Don't miss the very interesting historical perspective in the middle of the article: > Arming the force would, say opponents, undermine the principle of policing by consent - the notion that the force owes its primary duty to the public, rather than to the state, as in other countries. > This owes much to the historical foundations of British criminal justice, says Peter Waddington, professor of social policy at the University of Wolverhampton. > "A great deal of what we take as normal about policing was set out in the early 19th Century," he says. > "When Robert Peel formed the Metropolitan Police there was a very strong fear of the military - the masses feared the new force would be oppressive." > A force that did not routinely carry firearms - and wore blue rather than red, which was associated with the infantry - was part of this effort to distinguish the early "Peelers" from the Army, Waddington says. That's widely different from the Robocop mentality at play in the States (from what I can tell from the article).

fractalsea 12y ago

If anyone is curious about numbers. In 2012, out of 134,100 police officers in England and Wales [1], 6,756 are authorised to carry firearms [2]. So roughly 5%. Even if a police officer is authorised to carry a firearm, they must be authorised to used it. The same document states that firearms were authorised in 12,550 times in that year, and only used 5 times. [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-workforce-england-and-wales-31-march-2013/police-workforce-england-and-wales-31-march-2013 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-workforce-... [2] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/statistics-on-police-use-of-firearms-in-england-and-wales-2011-2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/statistics-on-pol...

baddox 12y ago

The actual Gestapo was only 70 years ago. I'm referring to a longer historical time frame. Obviously most of Western Europe has been stable since World War II.

mercurial 12y ago
What time period do you have in mind then? I don't really see, say, during the middle ages, or further back during the Antiquity, a period during which the population was helpless in the face of state security forces and widely oppressed.