5 ms·

I suppose this is the inevitable outcome of everyone owning firearms.

ajbetteridge 12y ago
No, this is the inevitable outcome of the global elite controlling government and the armed forces, and not giving a damn about the rest of the population whether they own guns or not.
- allegory 12y ago
  Who do you suppose the police officers are? At worst they are civilians with an ego problem and an itchy trigger finger. The problem is that encouraging an us and them approach empowers civil wars like this could turn into. The elite have nothing to do with this. They're easy targets in the scale of things (Kennedy for example). Only sheer numbers are an issue.
jmathai 12y ago
This is the reason why the right to bear arms is so critical. These police officers are not going up against an armed mob.
- easytiger 12y ago
  What? Have you had a stroke?
- mweibel 12y ago
  wtf? That's why in europe this happens all the time, right? I don't think it would help the situation at all if both sides would be armed. (Which, obviously doesn't mean that I think what the police doing there is correct). Maybe it's actually the other way around: Police knows people are probably armored, that's why they might need to have heavy armory as well.. Think about it.
  - arethuza 12y ago
    In case anyone has forgotten - in 2011 police in London shot and killed an innocent young man, multiple days of rioting in multiple cities followed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots
    - allegory 12y ago
      Some facts: Duggan was a Tottenham gang leader who was under investigation for various things from drug dealing to stabbing someone. The riots were just teenagers looting, not politically motivated.
      - arethuza 12y ago
        My mistake, I misread a report into the inquest - it was deemed a "lawful killing" at the inquest, I read it as "unlawfull".
    - mweibel 12y ago
      i'm not saying similar stuff doesn't happen. But people having weapons doesn't help at all.
  - jmathai 12y ago
    I just meant that if you're going to allow law enforcement to be armed then you need to have lawful ways for citizens to also be armed. There has to be a checks and balance system in place. In reality that's what most of the US constitution is based on and why the Bill of Rights puts so much power back into the hands of the people because the power of government was not something to be taken lightly. I'm not advocating that people go out with guns and start shooting at police.
- DanBC 12y ago
  "We declare our right on this earth...to be a human being, to be respected as a human being, to be given the rights of a human being in this society, on this earth, in this day, which we intend to bring into existence by any means necessary." "Our objective is complete freedom, justice and equality by any means necessary." "The day that the black man takes an uncompromising step and realizes that he's within his rights, when his own freedom is being jeopardized, to use any means necessary to bring about his freedom or put a halt to that injustice, I don't think he'll be by himself." -- Malcom X
baddox 12y ago
On the contrary, I suspect history shows a strong positive correlation between civilian-government power disparity and the brazenness of government.
- tacotime 12y ago
  For real, does anyone actually thing civilian gun ownership could ever actually play a role in protest confrontations like this? If one dude started firing at the police so many bystanders would be in the line of fire. And just forget about an organized effort, that would turn into a massacre. The only path forward is law and regulation that mitigates this militarization of our nation's police. This is soooo obviously oppression and disservice not service and protection. Just goes to show you how racist this nation still is, can't imagine this same response to protesters in a white suburban neighborhood.
  - allegory 12y ago
    I think the problem is that a lot of crazy people think that they could play a role in this.
  - baddox 12y ago
    > For real, does anyone actually thing civilian gun ownership could ever actually play a role in protest confrontations like this? I think it would absolutely play a role in deterring confrontations like this. I don't want government and civilians to fight. I want government to fear fighting civilians.
- mercurial 12y ago
  Really? Europe has had low rates of private gun ownerships for many decades. However, police has yet to turn into the Gestapo (consider for instance the UK, where the majority of the police force does not even carry firearms). On the other hand, it must be a lot easier to justify the use of snipers and military vehicles by the police when many civilians carry (possibly concealed) weaponry.
  - arethuza 12y ago

No, this is the inevitable outcome of the global elite controlling government and the armed forces, and not giving a damn about the rest of the population whether they own guns or not.

allegory 12y ago
Who do you suppose the police officers are? At worst they are civilians with an ego problem and an itchy trigger finger. The problem is that encouraging an us and them approach empowers civil wars like this could turn into. The elite have nothing to do with this. They're easy targets in the scale of things (Kennedy for example). Only sheer numbers are an issue.

jmathai 12y ago

This is the reason why the right to bear arms is so critical. These police officers are not going up against an armed mob.

easytiger 12y ago
What? Have you had a stroke?
mweibel 12y ago
wtf? That's why in europe this happens all the time, right? I don't think it would help the situation at all if both sides would be armed. (Which, obviously doesn't mean that I think what the police doing there is correct). Maybe it's actually the other way around: Police knows people are probably armored, that's why they might need to have heavy armory as well.. Think about it.
- arethuza 12y ago
  In case anyone has forgotten - in 2011 police in London shot and killed an innocent young man, multiple days of rioting in multiple cities followed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots
  - allegory 12y ago
    Some facts: Duggan was a Tottenham gang leader who was under investigation for various things from drug dealing to stabbing someone. The riots were just teenagers looting, not politically motivated.
    - arethuza 12y ago
      My mistake, I misread a report into the inquest - it was deemed a "lawful killing" at the inquest, I read it as "unlawfull".
  - mweibel 12y ago
    i'm not saying similar stuff doesn't happen. But people having weapons doesn't help at all.
- jmathai 12y ago
  I just meant that if you're going to allow law enforcement to be armed then you need to have lawful ways for citizens to also be armed. There has to be a checks and balance system in place. In reality that's what most of the US constitution is based on and why the Bill of Rights puts so much power back into the hands of the people because the power of government was not something to be taken lightly. I'm not advocating that people go out with guns and start shooting at police.
DanBC 12y ago
"We declare our right on this earth...to be a human being, to be respected as a human being, to be given the rights of a human being in this society, on this earth, in this day, which we intend to bring into existence by any means necessary." "Our objective is complete freedom, justice and equality by any means necessary." "The day that the black man takes an uncompromising step and realizes that he's within his rights, when his own freedom is being jeopardized, to use any means necessary to bring about his freedom or put a halt to that injustice, I don't think he'll be by himself." -- Malcom X

baddox 12y ago

On the contrary, I suspect history shows a strong positive correlation between civilian-government power disparity and the brazenness of government.

tacotime 12y ago
For real, does anyone actually thing civilian gun ownership could ever actually play a role in protest confrontations like this? If one dude started firing at the police so many bystanders would be in the line of fire. And just forget about an organized effort, that would turn into a massacre. The only path forward is law and regulation that mitigates this militarization of our nation's police. This is soooo obviously oppression and disservice not service and protection. Just goes to show you how racist this nation still is, can't imagine this same response to protesters in a white suburban neighborhood.
- allegory 12y ago
  I think the problem is that a lot of crazy people think that they could play a role in this.
- baddox 12y ago
  > For real, does anyone actually thing civilian gun ownership could ever actually play a role in protest confrontations like this? I think it would absolutely play a role in deterring confrontations like this. I don't want government and civilians to fight. I want government to fear fighting civilians.
mercurial 12y ago
Really? Europe has had low rates of private gun ownerships for many decades. However, police has yet to turn into the Gestapo (consider for instance the UK, where the majority of the police force does not even carry firearms). On the other hand, it must be a lot easier to justify the use of snipers and military vehicles by the police when many civilians carry (possibly concealed) weaponry.
- arethuza 12y ago