4 ms·

Yeah I feel similar. Programming isn't that hard :/ Building a successful startup, selling stuff, getting investment etc etc - They seem orders of magnitude ha

by axod 17y ago

Yeah I feel similar. Programming isn't that hard :/ Building a successful startup, selling stuff, getting investment etc etc - They seem orders of magnitude harder than programming.

mncaudill 17y ago
Programming isn't that hard? Writing code is easy, writing good code is hard, otherwise more people would do it, right?
- axod 17y ago
  Alright. Sorry... Programming is about as hard as mathematics I'd say - you can just learn it, and if you have the talent and perseverance, you can be a good programmer. So yes, perhaps this book will be more interesting to non-programmers, or people who are just starting out programming. It's the other things I find more interesting, that were covered in founders at work - the things that seem like luck - how do you get people to use your product? How do you make money? build a team? etc etc.
  - randallsquared 17y ago
    It's the other things I find more interesting, that were covered in founders at work - the things that seem like luck [...] This is precisely why I don't find those other things very interesting: they seem like luck (to a degree larger than things that interest me more, at least). Gambling is also uninteresting, for the same reason: there's too much luck involved.
plinkplonk 17y ago
" Programming isn't that hard" Whoa! doesn't that depend very much on what exactly you mean by "programming" and which specific program you are trying to create ?
- axod 17y ago
  Pick a webapp. Lets take twitter or facebook, or even youtube. I'm sure there's some really interesting problems when you drill down, and it'd take a fair while to conquer the problems, but it's just a large mountain - just takes longer to climb. I'm sure most of us could build a facebook/twitter/youtube clone if we decided to. The hard bit of course would be getting people to use it. The world is absolutely littered with fantastic clever well written programs, that no one uses. This is why I think programming is far easier than convincing someone to use it and all that other non-programming stuff, and why I personally am far more interested in the non-technical side of the equation. In comparison, the technical side is trivial.
  - sanswork 17y ago
    People always assume this with sites like youtube/facebook/twitter/etc but they forget that the most interesting problems tend to come from the requirements of scaling. From my experience most people seem to have their wall at which point they can't possibly conceive of a better way to scale X until someone comes along and goes "Try this". My experience also says this level is pretty low for most people.
  - holygoat 17y ago
    Webapps are not the only thing to program. Heck, they aren't even the only subject of a startup
  - bad_user 17y ago
    > Pick a webapp. Google :) > The world is absolutely littered with fantastic clever well written programs, that no one uses. The world is also littered with twitter/facebook/youtube clones that no one uses. What sets apart the wannabes from the successful ones is (among other things) the implementation. I find much joy in doing clever things. If those things end-up being used by other people then I literary have an orgasm. But doing something simple that happens to end-up popular because of happening at the right time ... that's really a turn-off (look honey, this website of mine got really popular so now I have to maintain it ... oh joy). Fortunately that happens less and less because the low-hanging fruits are already taken.
iron_ball 17y ago
Programming isn't that hard, but the business side is? The scales have been lifted from my eyes! Next time a "business guy" wants me to implement his great new idea for an iPhone app, I'll totally make it for him!
- abstractbill 17y ago
  I think what axod is saying (and I agree), is that being a random "business guy" who wants you to implement your great new idea is easy. But being a really great business guy, on the level of someone like Richard Branson, is really hard. And, unlike programming, which is "easy" to learn in the sense that there's a hell of a lot of resources that teach you how to do it, there simply is no way to learn how to be the next Branson.
  - axod 17y ago
    Thanks ;) You put it far better than me.
  - plinkplonk 17y ago
    " But being a really great business guy, on the level of someone like Richard Branson, is really hard." Well then, the analogy (for programming) should be to become someone like Ken Thompson . And that's equally hard (or harder). Being a really great X guy, is really hard, for most values of X.
    - axod 17y ago
      But being an awesome excellent programmer doesn't mean guaranteed success in any real measurable way. Maybe some recognition from peers, but certainly not in monetary terms. Begin an awesome excellent business guy does mean success in a measurable way.
      - plinkplonk 17y ago
        "But being an awesome excellent programmer doesn't mean success in any real measurable way." Being an awesome excellent violinist (say) doesn't mean success in any "measurable way" either. There is no absolute, objective ranking for violinist, but becoming an "awesome excellent" violinist is still just as hard or harder than becoming Richard Branson.

by axod 17y ago

Yeah I feel similar. Programming isn't that hard :/ Building a successful startup, selling stuff, getting investment etc etc - They seem orders of magnitude harder than programming.

mncaudill 17y ago

Programming isn't that hard? Writing code is easy, writing good code is hard, otherwise more people would do it, right?

axod 17y ago
Alright. Sorry... Programming is about as hard as mathematics I'd say - you can just learn it, and if you have the talent and perseverance, you can be a good programmer. So yes, perhaps this book will be more interesting to non-programmers, or people who are just starting out programming. It's the other things I find more interesting, that were covered in founders at work - the things that seem like luck - how do you get people to use your product? How do you make money? build a team? etc etc.
- randallsquared 17y ago
  It's the other things I find more interesting, that were covered in founders at work - the things that seem like luck [...] This is precisely why I don't find those other things very interesting: they seem like luck (to a degree larger than things that interest me more, at least). Gambling is also uninteresting, for the same reason: there's too much luck involved.

plinkplonk 17y ago

" Programming isn't that hard" Whoa! doesn't that depend very much on what exactly you mean by "programming" and which specific program you are trying to create ?

axod 17y ago
Pick a webapp. Lets take twitter or facebook, or even youtube. I'm sure there's some really interesting problems when you drill down, and it'd take a fair while to conquer the problems, but it's just a large mountain - just takes longer to climb. I'm sure most of us could build a facebook/twitter/youtube clone if we decided to. The hard bit of course would be getting people to use it. The world is absolutely littered with fantastic clever well written programs, that no one uses. This is why I think programming is far easier than convincing someone to use it and all that other non-programming stuff, and why I personally am far more interested in the non-technical side of the equation. In comparison, the technical side is trivial.
- sanswork 17y ago
  People always assume this with sites like youtube/facebook/twitter/etc but they forget that the most interesting problems tend to come from the requirements of scaling. From my experience most people seem to have their wall at which point they can't possibly conceive of a better way to scale X until someone comes along and goes "Try this". My experience also says this level is pretty low for most people.
- holygoat 17y ago
  Webapps are not the only thing to program. Heck, they aren't even the only subject of a startup
- bad_user 17y ago
  > Pick a webapp. Google :) > The world is absolutely littered with fantastic clever well written programs, that no one uses. The world is also littered with twitter/facebook/youtube clones that no one uses. What sets apart the wannabes from the successful ones is (among other things) the implementation. I find much joy in doing clever things. If those things end-up being used by other people then I literary have an orgasm. But doing something simple that happens to end-up popular because of happening at the right time ... that's really a turn-off (look honey, this website of mine got really popular so now I have to maintain it ... oh joy). Fortunately that happens less and less because the low-hanging fruits are already taken.

iron_ball 17y ago

Programming isn't that hard, but the business side is? The scales have been lifted from my eyes! Next time a "business guy" wants me to implement his great new idea for an iPhone app, I'll totally make it for him!

abstractbill 17y ago
I think what axod is saying (and I agree), is that being a random "business guy" who wants you to implement your great new idea is easy. But being a really great business guy, on the level of someone like Richard Branson, is really hard. And, unlike programming, which is "easy" to learn in the sense that there's a hell of a lot of resources that teach you how to do it, there simply is no way to learn how to be the next Branson.
- axod 17y ago
  Thanks ;) You put it far better than me.
- plinkplonk 17y ago
  " But being a really great business guy, on the level of someone like Richard Branson, is really hard." Well then, the analogy (for programming) should be to become someone like Ken Thompson . And that's equally hard (or harder). Being a really great X guy, is really hard, for most values of X.
  - axod 17y ago
    But being an awesome excellent programmer doesn't mean guaranteed success in any real measurable way. Maybe some recognition from peers, but certainly not in monetary terms. Begin an awesome excellent business guy does mean success in a measurable way.
    - plinkplonk 17y ago
      "But being an awesome excellent programmer doesn't mean success in any real measurable way." Being an awesome excellent violinist (say) doesn't mean success in any "measurable way" either. There is no absolute, objective ranking for violinist, but becoming an "awesome excellent" violinist is still just as hard or harder than becoming Richard Branson.