6 ms·

Two key 'new' things from this article, that were previously unknown: 1. The NSA exploited the firmware of a Syrian core internet router, and bricked it by mis

by adityab 12y ago

Two key 'new' things from this article, that were previously unknown: 1. The NSA exploited the firmware of a Syrian core internet router, and bricked it by mistake. This was an "oh shit" moment (sic). So in it's eagerness to scoop up all digital communications, it killed the majormost way for citizens to communicate while in the midst of a civil war. Great. 2. There is a project called "MonsterMind", which 100% automates adversarial hacking in retaliation to detected attacks. Very Strangelove-ian, as the article says. EDIT: Typo, thanks to not having had coffee in time.

glenneroo 12y ago
"MonsterMind"
khc 12y ago
The article says it's called "MonsterMind", not "MasterMind"
Maxious 12y ago
Press coverage of the Syrian internet outage at the time: http://www.cnet.com/news/blackout-syria-vanishes-from-internet/ http://www.cnet.com/news/blackout-syria-vanishes-from-intern... "The Middle Eastern country has been experiencing an Internet outage for several hours, and many people on Twitter are reporting that phone lines are down as well." http://www.renesys.com/2012/11/syria-off-the-air/ http://www.renesys.com/2012/11/syria-off-the-air/ "There was one brief whole-country outage of less than ten minutes on 25 November. By the time that one was confirmed, the outage was over. It would be reaching to call that a “precursor event” or “practice run,” but that’s a possibility." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/30/anonymous-declares-war-syrian-government-websites_n_2218447.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/30/anonymous-declares-... "The Syrian government said that terrorists were behind the outages, but CloudFlare, a firm that helps accelerate Internet traffic, said it would have been extremely difficult for any type of sabotage to cause such a comprehensive blackout, according to Reuters." http://blog.cloudflare.com/how-syria-turned-off-the-internet http://blog.cloudflare.com/how-syria-turned-off-the-internet "All the edge routers are controlled by Syrian Telecommunications. The systematic way in which routes were withdrawn suggests that this was done through updates in router configurations, not through a physical failure or cable cut."
- BgSpnnrs 12y ago
  Didn't the chap who hacked FinFisher mention something about Syrians somehow acquiring the software. I'm sure I read that the other day
  - celticninja 12y ago
    Maybe, but it is completely unrelated.
jobu 12y ago
Another interesting item I hadn't heard before is that Snowden tried to leave clues as to which files he copied, and which files he looked at but didn't take: But he believes the NSA's audit missed those clues and simply reported the total number of documents he touched—1.7 million. (Snowden says he actually took far fewer.) “I figured they would have a hard time,” he says. “I didn't figure they would be completely incapable.”
- cpwright 12y ago
  His statement presumes it would be in the agencies interest to publicly minimize what he took rather than publicly maximize it.
  - yardie 12y ago
    You minimise the damage reported to keep your job. You maximise the damage reported to get the bosses job. Geeks have been doing this for yours; i.e.. "the security breach was minimal" vs. "you should hire me, your security are ineffective."
- FLUX-YOU 12y ago
  When the article chose to put quotes around "touched", my thought was that Snowden was being clever and running a script that ran 'touch $file' for everything he had stolen. That's what I'm going to choose to believe, anyways. :)
  - toyg 12y ago
    Almost -- I think he used "touch" to show all the documents he could take, but did something else to the ones he actually did take (maybe flipping a permission bit, granting full access to a "leakyleaky" group or something like that). Hence, authorities reporting only "the total number of documents he touched" is a failure from Snowden's point of view, because they didn't see the whole scheme. In that sense, I think he's being slightly naive there -- it's clear that, once the story got huge, Clapper and Alexander had an interest in exaggerating the number as much as possible; so for all we know, they might have actually understood Snowden's scheme but willfully chosen to ignore it.
slg 12y ago
It is in revealing things like this that make me question Snowden. While both points are interesting and maybe a little troubling, they are certainly not whistleblowing in the name of protecting the rights of American citizens. He has moved from simply exposing the breadth of the domestic spying apparatus to exposing the tactics the United States uses in legitimate espionage operations. Isn't trying to compromise the communication network of a country like Syria the exact thing the NSA is supposed to be doing? And what positive value comes from Snowden releasing something like that?
- djb_hackernews 12y ago
  > Isn't trying to compromise the communication network of a country like Syria the exact thing the NSA is supposed to be doing? No
- scrollaway 12y ago
  > Isn't trying to compromise the communication network of a country like Syria the exact thing the NSA is supposed to be doing? What is wrong with you; what the hell do you have against Syria? What if this was France? The UK? Germany? This was a mistake that happened while "attempting to bug Syria". Knowing the NSA, they bug almost every country out there — so yes, this could have happened to any of the ones I've listed. Internet is a public service, one as essential as water and electricity. How do you call a country that disrupts another country's public services? In my book, I call it an act of war. So you tell me, slg, is it the NSA's job to randomly decide to declare war against other countries?
  - devindotcom 12y ago
    Getting intelligence out of a country in the middle of a civil war, in a powderkeg of a region, seems pretty critical to me. We also have spies and malware installed all over the world, and the world is doing its best to spy on and infiltrate us. This is the reality of espionage, intelligence, and counter-intelligence.
    - scrollaway 12y ago
darksim905 12y ago
>There is a project called "MonsterMind", which 100% automates adversarial hacking in retaliation to detected attacks. Very Strangelove-ian, as the article says. I have peers who have known about that for a solid 6 months who talk about it. It's nothing new. The Gov't has been working on stuff like that, with stuff like that & have those ideas at the core of everything they do for years.
- frandroid 12y ago
  Were they talking about it in public online forums, and/or publishing articles? This is what "new" means here.
- sarciszewski 12y ago
  Who are these peers of yours? ;]
  - darksim905 12y ago
    Gov't contractors with YW clearances. Some people talk about it but don't name the software. The idea has been out there for a long time. The issue is in the public sector is the legality of it -- you'd technically get hit hard with a CFAA probably.
Dolimiter 12y ago
NO Please, I read Hacker News for intelligent discourse, away from Reddit-type nonsense. There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that the NSA hacked the Syrian core router. Snowden was passing on office gossip which he heard. Why isn't that fact mentioned? Because it doesn't suit the cultural narrative?
- jsmthrowaway 12y ago
  As a user of both Reddit and HN, I have much more fulfilling conversations on Reddit in some areas, more fulfilling conversations on HN in some areas. In general, however, Reddit is typically a far more positive experience. The proof is in the pudding, right here: you've haughtily stated that HN is more intelligent, and come now, how is that even remotely an intelligent thing to say? I contribute to Reddit on a daily basis and generally it's an improvement to my day, such as organizing something worthwhile, learning something, or sharing knowledge with an eager listener. Whenever I contribute here, I generally end up in a bad mood because it's just a quest to be more right than someone else. My comments are far more spaced out here. Yesterday on Reddit we had a nice, enriched conversation about BGP with loads of young people learning things due to the routing table issue[1], including a comment on which $20 was spent to say "thank you." When's the last time a bunch of teenagers developed an interest in network engineering based upon a comment thread on Hacker News? Exactly. They're more likely to get better at arguing about minutiae here. The real difference between HN and Reddit is that on Hacker News, you are not discouraged from downvoting opinions with which you disagree. I recall pg saying he considered that fine. Combined with graying out of comments almost immediately, with the first downvote, this means groupthink is basically encouraged. Even though most folks disregard Reddiquette, it is clearly stated that you shouldn't downvote opinions simply because you don't like them, and should instead take contributing to the discussion into account. I've found in some of the smaller, tighter-knit communities, discussion is extremely healthy, respectful, and accommodating to all sides. I don't even bother on gender in tech threads here, but I've soaked days into them on Reddit, learning from my peers and comparing notes. This has been going on for ages, "oh, no, HN is turning into Reddit," you should be so lucky to be as positive as several of those communities. It's a tired meme. I come to HN to read valley opinions without Reddit slapping, so can I get my wish if you get yours? Just forget Reddit exists if it bothers you so much. --- Now, then, that off my chest: As for your point, at this point, Snowden has no motivation to lie. The article says he was told by an intelligence officer. This could have been a briefing and he might have further knowledge of the operation, or it might have been watercooler, we don't know, but the context of the revelation was indeed disclosed by the article's author. [1]: http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/2dcol3/the_internet_hit_512k_bgp_routes_today_causing/cjo90mo http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/2dcol3/the_interne...

by adityab 12y ago

glenneroo 12y ago

"MonsterMind"

khc 12y ago

The article says it's called "MonsterMind", not "MasterMind"

Maxious 12y ago

Press coverage of the Syrian internet outage at the time: http://www.cnet.com/news/blackout-syria-vanishes-from-internet/ http://www.cnet.com/news/blackout-syria-vanishes-from-intern... "The Middle Eastern country has been experiencing an Internet outage for several hours, and many people on Twitter are reporting that phone lines are down as well." http://www.renesys.com/2012/11/syria-off-the-air/ http://www.renesys.com/2012/11/syria-off-the-air/ "There was one brief whole-country outage of less than ten minutes on 25 November. By the time that one was confirmed, the outage was over. It would be reaching to call that a “precursor event” or “practice run,” but that’s a possibility." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/30/anonymous-declares-war-syrian-government-websites_n_2218447.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/30/anonymous-declares-... "The Syrian government said that terrorists were behind the outages, but CloudFlare, a firm that helps accelerate Internet traffic, said it would have been extremely difficult for any type of sabotage to cause such a comprehensive blackout, according to Reuters." http://blog.cloudflare.com/how-syria-turned-off-the-internet http://blog.cloudflare.com/how-syria-turned-off-the-internet "All the edge routers are controlled by Syrian Telecommunications. The systematic way in which routes were withdrawn suggests that this was done through updates in router configurations, not through a physical failure or cable cut."

BgSpnnrs 12y ago
Didn't the chap who hacked FinFisher mention something about Syrians somehow acquiring the software. I'm sure I read that the other day
- celticninja 12y ago
  Maybe, but it is completely unrelated.

jobu 12y ago

Another interesting item I hadn't heard before is that Snowden tried to leave clues as to which files he copied, and which files he looked at but didn't take: But he believes the NSA's audit missed those clues and simply reported the total number of documents he touched—1.7 million. (Snowden says he actually took far fewer.) “I figured they would have a hard time,” he says. “I didn't figure they would be completely incapable.”

cpwright 12y ago
His statement presumes it would be in the agencies interest to publicly minimize what he took rather than publicly maximize it.
- yardie 12y ago
  You minimise the damage reported to keep your job. You maximise the damage reported to get the bosses job. Geeks have been doing this for yours; i.e.. "the security breach was minimal" vs. "you should hire me, your security are ineffective."
FLUX-YOU 12y ago
When the article chose to put quotes around "touched", my thought was that Snowden was being clever and running a script that ran 'touch $file' for everything he had stolen. That's what I'm going to choose to believe, anyways. :)
- toyg 12y ago
  Almost -- I think he used "touch" to show all the documents he could take, but did something else to the ones he actually did take (maybe flipping a permission bit, granting full access to a "leakyleaky" group or something like that). Hence, authorities reporting only "the total number of documents he touched" is a failure from Snowden's point of view, because they didn't see the whole scheme. In that sense, I think he's being slightly naive there -- it's clear that, once the story got huge, Clapper and Alexander had an interest in exaggerating the number as much as possible; so for all we know, they might have actually understood Snowden's scheme but willfully chosen to ignore it.

slg 12y ago

It is in revealing things like this that make me question Snowden. While both points are interesting and maybe a little troubling, they are certainly not whistleblowing in the name of protecting the rights of American citizens. He has moved from simply exposing the breadth of the domestic spying apparatus to exposing the tactics the United States uses in legitimate espionage operations. Isn't trying to compromise the communication network of a country like Syria the exact thing the NSA is supposed to be doing? And what positive value comes from Snowden releasing something like that?

djb_hackernews 12y ago
> Isn't trying to compromise the communication network of a country like Syria the exact thing the NSA is supposed to be doing? No
scrollaway 12y ago
> Isn't trying to compromise the communication network of a country like Syria the exact thing the NSA is supposed to be doing? What is wrong with you; what the hell do you have against Syria? What if this was France? The UK? Germany? This was a mistake that happened while "attempting to bug Syria". Knowing the NSA, they bug almost every country out there — so yes, this could have happened to any of the ones I've listed. Internet is a public service, one as essential as water and electricity. How do you call a country that disrupts another country's public services? In my book, I call it an act of war. So you tell me, slg, is it the NSA's job to randomly decide to declare war against other countries?
- devindotcom 12y ago
  Getting intelligence out of a country in the middle of a civil war, in a powderkeg of a region, seems pretty critical to me. We also have spies and malware installed all over the world, and the world is doing its best to spy on and infiltrate us. This is the reality of espionage, intelligence, and counter-intelligence.
  - scrollaway 12y ago

darksim905 12y ago

>There is a project called "MonsterMind", which 100% automates adversarial hacking in retaliation to detected attacks. Very Strangelove-ian, as the article says. I have peers who have known about that for a solid 6 months who talk about it. It's nothing new. The Gov't has been working on stuff like that, with stuff like that & have those ideas at the core of everything they do for years.

frandroid 12y ago
Were they talking about it in public online forums, and/or publishing articles? This is what "new" means here.
sarciszewski 12y ago
Who are these peers of yours? ;]
- darksim905 12y ago
  Gov't contractors with YW clearances. Some people talk about it but don't name the software. The idea has been out there for a long time. The issue is in the public sector is the legality of it -- you'd technically get hit hard with a CFAA probably.

Dolimiter 12y ago

NO Please, I read Hacker News for intelligent discourse, away from Reddit-type nonsense. There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that the NSA hacked the Syrian core router. Snowden was passing on office gossip which he heard. Why isn't that fact mentioned? Because it doesn't suit the cultural narrative?

jsmthrowaway 12y ago
As a user of both Reddit and HN, I have much more fulfilling conversations on Reddit in some areas, more fulfilling conversations on HN in some areas. In general, however, Reddit is typically a far more positive experience. The proof is in the pudding, right here: you've haughtily stated that HN is more intelligent, and come now, how is that even remotely an intelligent thing to say? I contribute to Reddit on a daily basis and generally it's an improvement to my day, such as organizing something worthwhile, learning something, or sharing knowledge with an eager listener. Whenever I contribute here, I generally end up in a bad mood because it's just a quest to be more right than someone else. My comments are far more spaced out here. Yesterday on Reddit we had a nice, enriched conversation about BGP with loads of young people learning things due to the routing table issue[1], including a comment on which $20 was spent to say "thank you." When's the last time a bunch of teenagers developed an interest in network engineering based upon a comment thread on Hacker News? Exactly. They're more likely to get better at arguing about minutiae here. The real difference between HN and Reddit is that on Hacker News, you are not discouraged from downvoting opinions with which you disagree. I recall pg saying he considered that fine. Combined with graying out of comments almost immediately, with the first downvote, this means groupthink is basically encouraged. Even though most folks disregard Reddiquette, it is clearly stated that you shouldn't downvote opinions simply because you don't like them, and should instead take contributing to the discussion into account. I've found in some of the smaller, tighter-knit communities, discussion is extremely healthy, respectful, and accommodating to all sides. I don't even bother on gender in tech threads here, but I've soaked days into them on Reddit, learning from my peers and comparing notes. This has been going on for ages, "oh, no, HN is turning into Reddit," you should be so lucky to be as positive as several of those communities. It's a tired meme. I come to HN to read valley opinions without Reddit slapping, so can I get my wish if you get yours? Just forget Reddit exists if it bothers you so much. --- Now, then, that off my chest: As for your point, at this point, Snowden has no motivation to lie. The article says he was told by an intelligence officer. This could have been a briefing and he might have further knowledge of the operation, or it might have been watercooler, we don't know, but the context of the revelation was indeed disclosed by the article's author. [1]: http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/2dcol3/the_internet_hit_512k_bgp_routes_today_causing/cjo90mo http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/2dcol3/the_interne...