5 ms·

If they do succeed I seriously think it could be the end of Java.

edgyswingset 12y ago
I wouldn't be so hasty in thinking that. Java is catching up considerably with Java 8, and if you combine that with Guava extensions it can at times feel like a modern language.
wclax04 12y ago
Java has a massive foothold in the business community, especially in finance. I don't think Java is going away anytime soon.
- CmonDev 12y ago
  Yes, Java is basically new COBOL. Ugly yet to stay in a lot of places for a while.
  - watt 12y ago
    You should realize that Java (JVM and libraries) is completely open source (GPL). Oracle JDK is just another build of OpenJDK. This means the ecosystem is not tied to a vendor: if you build your systems on Java, you are your own master.
rbanffy 12y ago
Not unless Android development adopts it. Also, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, Java has a colossal momentum in just about every space outside Microsoft's sphere of influence. It would seem Oracle is trying, but it'll be very difficult to kill Java. Besides, it's not a bad language, if you avoid the most common anti-patterns.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  Oracle is actually being more proactive than Sun. As for the whole Oracle vs Google, Google was the one trying to avoid paying for J2ME licenses. James Gosling mentioned on his blog that Sun did not sue due to lack of money.
  - rbanffy 12y ago
    Suing Google because of Android is beyond stupid. Android breathes life into what could become an enterprise/legacy-only ecosystem in a very short time and, from that point, it's a slow descent into irrelevance. Oracle should embrace Java developers and make it as easy as possible for them to write Java applications for everything, not only server workloads. We quickly forget the technologies we don't see in front of us. It's been 3 years since I wrote my last line of Java code for a web application. I wouldn't choose Java for the kinds of application I am doing.
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      Thus letting Google go with their "I don't want to pay" attitude?! It is not like Google is a poor startup trying to get some product out of the ground. Maybe they even have paid more to their layers as they would have paid in licenses. If it was right for Microsoft, it should be for Google as well. As for choosing Java or not, there are lots of areas in the industry right now where the JVM is the only game in town, as I mentioned in another thread. The companies with money outside FOSS freebies, don't care about this.
    - blub 12y ago
      Well no. You can't just take someone's work and then use "we're breathing life into your ecosystem" as an excuse. Java makes sense for some applications, probably not for what you're doing. I mean if you want to pick a stack on the server (not talking about websites) that's in wide use, has a big pool of programmers to choose from and capable tooling what can you pick? Java and .NET pretty much and the latter is getting super-expensive as many here will testify. Sun was a company, not a charity.
      - rbanffy 12y ago
        If Google decided to turn Android around and use, say, Go, as its main development language, do you think there would be many new developers willing to learn Java? As it is now we are already at a point not that many people are willing/eager to learn Java. Push it further and it becomes COBOL. It's not about what Google did. It's about whether it benefits the Java ecosystem or not.
Rapzid 12y ago
Nah, it's too late for that as others have pointed out. It's a shame Microsoft didn't embrace cross-platform earlier on or things would be very different right now.
pjmlp 12y ago
Not really. Unless Xamarin starts supporting all the platforms out there with Java compilers and JVMs available, that are currently out of scope for them: - BlueRay players - Temperature controllers with network capabilities - Programmable smart cards - Robotics like JamaicaVM - Real time systems like Atego Perc - Car infotaiment systems like JamaicaCAR - Mainframe systems like OS/400 - Microcontroler systems like MicroEJ This is a very small sample where you can find Java code running.
- 72deluxe 12y ago
  SIM cards too.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    SIM cards are smart cards :)
    - 72deluxe 12y ago
      Those SIM cards are obviously smarter than me :-)

I wouldn't be so hasty in thinking that. Java is catching up considerably with Java 8, and if you combine that with Guava extensions it can at times feel like a modern language.

wclax04 12y ago

Java has a massive foothold in the business community, especially in finance. I don't think Java is going away anytime soon.

CmonDev 12y ago
Yes, Java is basically new COBOL. Ugly yet to stay in a lot of places for a while.
- watt 12y ago
  You should realize that Java (JVM and libraries) is completely open source (GPL). Oracle JDK is just another build of OpenJDK. This means the ecosystem is not tied to a vendor: if you build your systems on Java, you are your own master.

rbanffy 12y ago

Not unless Android development adopts it. Also, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, Java has a colossal momentum in just about every space outside Microsoft's sphere of influence. It would seem Oracle is trying, but it'll be very difficult to kill Java. Besides, it's not a bad language, if you avoid the most common anti-patterns.

pjmlp 12y ago
Oracle is actually being more proactive than Sun. As for the whole Oracle vs Google, Google was the one trying to avoid paying for J2ME licenses. James Gosling mentioned on his blog that Sun did not sue due to lack of money.
- rbanffy 12y ago
  Suing Google because of Android is beyond stupid. Android breathes life into what could become an enterprise/legacy-only ecosystem in a very short time and, from that point, it's a slow descent into irrelevance. Oracle should embrace Java developers and make it as easy as possible for them to write Java applications for everything, not only server workloads. We quickly forget the technologies we don't see in front of us. It's been 3 years since I wrote my last line of Java code for a web application. I wouldn't choose Java for the kinds of application I am doing.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    Thus letting Google go with their "I don't want to pay" attitude?! It is not like Google is a poor startup trying to get some product out of the ground. Maybe they even have paid more to their layers as they would have paid in licenses. If it was right for Microsoft, it should be for Google as well. As for choosing Java or not, there are lots of areas in the industry right now where the JVM is the only game in town, as I mentioned in another thread. The companies with money outside FOSS freebies, don't care about this.
  - blub 12y ago
    Well no. You can't just take someone's work and then use "we're breathing life into your ecosystem" as an excuse. Java makes sense for some applications, probably not for what you're doing. I mean if you want to pick a stack on the server (not talking about websites) that's in wide use, has a big pool of programmers to choose from and capable tooling what can you pick? Java and .NET pretty much and the latter is getting super-expensive as many here will testify. Sun was a company, not a charity.
    - rbanffy 12y ago
      If Google decided to turn Android around and use, say, Go, as its main development language, do you think there would be many new developers willing to learn Java? As it is now we are already at a point not that many people are willing/eager to learn Java. Push it further and it becomes COBOL. It's not about what Google did. It's about whether it benefits the Java ecosystem or not.

Rapzid 12y ago

Nah, it's too late for that as others have pointed out. It's a shame Microsoft didn't embrace cross-platform earlier on or things would be very different right now.

pjmlp 12y ago

Not really. Unless Xamarin starts supporting all the platforms out there with Java compilers and JVMs available, that are currently out of scope for them: - BlueRay players - Temperature controllers with network capabilities - Programmable smart cards - Robotics like JamaicaVM - Real time systems like Atego Perc - Car infotaiment systems like JamaicaCAR - Mainframe systems like OS/400 - Microcontroler systems like MicroEJ This is a very small sample where you can find Java code running.

72deluxe 12y ago
SIM cards too.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  SIM cards are smart cards :)
  - 72deluxe 12y ago
    Those SIM cards are obviously smarter than me :-)