6 ms·

Consumer Reports' Tesla Model S has more than its share of problems

35 points by dror 12y ago

ckdarby 12y ago
Title bait; Watch the video, the problems are all minor issues that were fixed & the owner is given a replacement car while they're fixed.
- gamblor956 12y ago
  The point of the article was really that Consumer Reports will be releasing a new reliability report on the fall. The Tesla's reliability rating may or may not fall, depending on the survey results provided by actual owners. CR does not include its own experiences in the reliability report, though these experiences do factor into CR's ratings and recommendations.
  - drewg123 12y ago
    Does anybody know how much the severity of the problem factors into the ratings? When doing research for my last car (a prius), a lot of the prius owners claimed that a recent reliability drop in CR Prius ratings corresponded with Toyota introducing the "Entune" radio / app system. At least for me, I'm much less concerned about an app crashing than I am about the car leaving me stranded because of, say, a coolant leak.
    - bri3d 12y ago
      On the Consumer Reports survey, respondents are asked to self-report the perceived severity of a failure along with the amount of time they were left without the car. I'm not sure about the algorithm used to turn these inputs into the simplistic CR circle-ratings, but I suspect that safety and total-inoperability issues are weighted heavily. Regardless of how the results are compiled, it's obvious that cars which already have a perfect score are susceptible to "fall off" due to moderate annoyances.
- alistairSH 12y ago
  How is the charing port not opening a minor issue? Or, the door handles getting stuck. Both of those render the car inoperable. They got lucky in that the door handles were fixed with an OTA update. The port required a service appointment. Compared to my three cars (Lexus RX, Jeep Wrangler, VW GTI), the Model S sounds like a complete dud. Which is a shame because it's a sexy car and I'd love to own one someday.
  - kenrikm 12y ago
    I've had my share of issues on my Lexus is250 (radio knobs breaking, new valves because they stuck, rough idle when braking hard) - all were covered under warranty though which is the main point. Issues like this usually pop up early in a car's life, I think the more interesting what happens to the Model S at 100k, 200k, 300k etc.. long term is still a huge unknown.
    - virtue3 12y ago
      Luckily the mechanics of electric cars are _much_ simpler than internal composition engines. The idea of "drive it till the trans falls out" shouldn't exist here. It is mildly annoying that the entire thing is basically driven by a computer. Because we all know around here that code is 100% reliable and never goes wrong :/... (and by code I mean software switches for everything and no manual mechanisms... like a latch for the charge port, etc etc).
    - alistairSH 12y ago
      Oh, I've had issues with my cars. The Lexus required a new radio at 40k miles (warrantied). The GTI a new throttle sensor at 40k (warrantied) and SRS sensor at 50k (warrantied). But none of them caused the car to be undriveable. And all happened after several years of driving, not several months. Anyway, as I hinted at above, I'm hopeful Tesla is successful. I wanted a Roadster back in '08. I want an S now. And I'm sure when they release their 3-series competitor, it'll be on the short list to replace the Lexus.
  - jdmichal 12y ago
    Honestly, I'd be more worried about the fact that the center console screen going out is what completely prevented them from opening the charging point. So daily usage of the car is entirely reliant on a touch screen interface with no physical fallback at all? That's frightening to me.
seanflyon 12y ago
Tesla has had some serious drive-train problems [1] (which it appears Consumer Reports did not experience) but they seem to have fixed the problem [2]. 1) http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-drive-unit-iv-the-milling.html http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-tes... 2) http://transportevolved.com/2014/08/11/tesla-model-s-drivetrain-woes-50-cent-fix-will-take-drivetrain-replacement/ http://transportevolved.com/2014/08/11/tesla-model-s-drivetr...
grecy 12y ago
Tesla have only been making an entire car for a few years, and they've only made a few tens of thousands of them. Anyone who buys one has to reasonably expect a few teething problems here and there. Early adopters of Version 1.0, etc. What matters is how Telsa deals with these problems, and if customer satisfaction is severely impacted. From all reports, they're doing a good job and owners are not yet unhappy. I see absolutely no problem here, and nothing to worry about. They're obviously learning and growing, and things will improve as time goes on.
- bri3d 12y ago
  Besides a few possible 50,000+ mile examples, Tesla Model Ses are all in warranty right now. Once they're out of warranty, it's possible that customer satisfaction will go right out the window unless Tesla subsidize the cost of repairs further. Tesla seem cognizant of this issue in that they both offered a better-than-standard warranty for their market segment and are proactive about updating cars to revised parts (as opposed to other manufacturers, who often force consumers to harass dealers about service bulletins they've noticed and want fixed). However, I'd still worry a bit. Systemic issues could result in increased depreciation and a tarnished reputation, which would be a double-whammy for Tesla thanks to their aggressive buy-back lease program. Plus with a complete vendor service lock-in, Tesla are in complete control of service prices and availability. This is a tricky game to play. Right now, Teslas are relatively expensive and owners probably won't have problems paying dealer service prices, but as Tesla move downmarket they'll have to strike a balance between making a profit and preserving their reputation, and there aren't any third-party mechanics for budget-conscious consumers to seek out.
  - ghaff 12y ago
    I admit that I don't drive BMWs or other high-end cars but I must say that this sentence caught my eye: "The maintenance service, done at the same time, includes topping off fluids, cabin filter replacement, key fob batteries, and a tire rotation. All told, we paid $636.90 with tax." I'm probably not the market for (current) Teslas--too cheap when it comes to cars--but that seems like... a lot. My Toyota SUV, which is not a particularly LOW-end car, covered pretty much all service for 2 years. Again, understand I'm not Tesla's current market.
andrewtbham 12y ago
I misinterpreted the title. I read it like: "Consumer Reports: Tesla Model S has more than its share of problems" I didn't see the apostrophe and that changes the meaning from what I initially thought. >Bear in mind that the experiences with our test cars are purely anecdotal and never factor into our reliability ratings. After all, it's a sample size of one.
- Apes 12y ago
  It's partially due to the incorrect syntax, should be "Consumer Reports's"
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    It's not incorrect syntax; indeed, while the preferred method of showing possessives where the possessing noun ends in an "s" is is a stylistic issue that is subject to much debate, most of the rules that I can find suggested now would find "Consumer Reports'" to be the correct form, not "Consumer Reports's". [1] Eg, this source ( http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/apostro.asp http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/apostro.asp ) reports several rules that are in use for singular and proper nouns (see Rule 1c): 1. Add just an apostrophe after the "s" for any word endign in "s" 2. Add an apostrophe and an "s" to a common noun ending in "s", but just an apostropher to a proper noun ending in "s". 3. Write the word as we speak it. Further, in Rule 2a: regular nouns that form plurals with "-s" or "-es" just get an apostrophe (no extra "s"). Consumer Reports is a proper noun formed from the plural form of a common noun that is pluralized by adding an "s", so all those (except perhaps "write as you speak", and then only if you'd say "Consumer Reportses" for the possessive form) support adding a bare apostrophe rather than apostrophe plus s.
    - nardi 12y ago
      For a better treatment, I turned to The Chicago Manual of Style (sixteenth edition), used by the vast majority of publishers of American English books. It says in Section 7.19 to omit the s "...when the name of a place or an organization or a publication (or the last element in the name) is a plural form ending in s, such as the United States, even though the entity is singular." And cites these as examples: the United States' role in international law Highland Hills' late mayor Callaway Gardens' former curator the National Academy of Sciences' new policy

35 points by dror 12y ago

Title bait; Watch the video, the problems are all minor issues that were fixed & the owner is given a replacement car while they're fixed.

gamblor956 12y ago
The point of the article was really that Consumer Reports will be releasing a new reliability report on the fall. The Tesla's reliability rating may or may not fall, depending on the survey results provided by actual owners. CR does not include its own experiences in the reliability report, though these experiences do factor into CR's ratings and recommendations.
- drewg123 12y ago
  Does anybody know how much the severity of the problem factors into the ratings? When doing research for my last car (a prius), a lot of the prius owners claimed that a recent reliability drop in CR Prius ratings corresponded with Toyota introducing the "Entune" radio / app system. At least for me, I'm much less concerned about an app crashing than I am about the car leaving me stranded because of, say, a coolant leak.
  - bri3d 12y ago
    On the Consumer Reports survey, respondents are asked to self-report the perceived severity of a failure along with the amount of time they were left without the car. I'm not sure about the algorithm used to turn these inputs into the simplistic CR circle-ratings, but I suspect that safety and total-inoperability issues are weighted heavily. Regardless of how the results are compiled, it's obvious that cars which already have a perfect score are susceptible to "fall off" due to moderate annoyances.
alistairSH 12y ago
How is the charing port not opening a minor issue? Or, the door handles getting stuck. Both of those render the car inoperable. They got lucky in that the door handles were fixed with an OTA update. The port required a service appointment. Compared to my three cars (Lexus RX, Jeep Wrangler, VW GTI), the Model S sounds like a complete dud. Which is a shame because it's a sexy car and I'd love to own one someday.
- kenrikm 12y ago
  I've had my share of issues on my Lexus is250 (radio knobs breaking, new valves because they stuck, rough idle when braking hard) - all were covered under warranty though which is the main point. Issues like this usually pop up early in a car's life, I think the more interesting what happens to the Model S at 100k, 200k, 300k etc.. long term is still a huge unknown.
  - virtue3 12y ago
    Luckily the mechanics of electric cars are _much_ simpler than internal composition engines. The idea of "drive it till the trans falls out" shouldn't exist here. It is mildly annoying that the entire thing is basically driven by a computer. Because we all know around here that code is 100% reliable and never goes wrong :/... (and by code I mean software switches for everything and no manual mechanisms... like a latch for the charge port, etc etc).
  - alistairSH 12y ago
    Oh, I've had issues with my cars. The Lexus required a new radio at 40k miles (warrantied). The GTI a new throttle sensor at 40k (warrantied) and SRS sensor at 50k (warrantied). But none of them caused the car to be undriveable. And all happened after several years of driving, not several months. Anyway, as I hinted at above, I'm hopeful Tesla is successful. I wanted a Roadster back in '08. I want an S now. And I'm sure when they release their 3-series competitor, it'll be on the short list to replace the Lexus.
- jdmichal 12y ago
  Honestly, I'd be more worried about the fact that the center console screen going out is what completely prevented them from opening the charging point. So daily usage of the car is entirely reliant on a touch screen interface with no physical fallback at all? That's frightening to me.

seanflyon 12y ago

Tesla has had some serious drive-train problems [1] (which it appears Consumer Reports did not experience) but they seem to have fixed the problem [2]. 1) http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-drive-unit-iv-the-milling.html http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-tes... 2) http://transportevolved.com/2014/08/11/tesla-model-s-drivetrain-woes-50-cent-fix-will-take-drivetrain-replacement/ http://transportevolved.com/2014/08/11/tesla-model-s-drivetr...

grecy 12y ago

Tesla have only been making an entire car for a few years, and they've only made a few tens of thousands of them. Anyone who buys one has to reasonably expect a few teething problems here and there. Early adopters of Version 1.0, etc. What matters is how Telsa deals with these problems, and if customer satisfaction is severely impacted. From all reports, they're doing a good job and owners are not yet unhappy. I see absolutely no problem here, and nothing to worry about. They're obviously learning and growing, and things will improve as time goes on.

bri3d 12y ago
Besides a few possible 50,000+ mile examples, Tesla Model Ses are all in warranty right now. Once they're out of warranty, it's possible that customer satisfaction will go right out the window unless Tesla subsidize the cost of repairs further. Tesla seem cognizant of this issue in that they both offered a better-than-standard warranty for their market segment and are proactive about updating cars to revised parts (as opposed to other manufacturers, who often force consumers to harass dealers about service bulletins they've noticed and want fixed). However, I'd still worry a bit. Systemic issues could result in increased depreciation and a tarnished reputation, which would be a double-whammy for Tesla thanks to their aggressive buy-back lease program. Plus with a complete vendor service lock-in, Tesla are in complete control of service prices and availability. This is a tricky game to play. Right now, Teslas are relatively expensive and owners probably won't have problems paying dealer service prices, but as Tesla move downmarket they'll have to strike a balance between making a profit and preserving their reputation, and there aren't any third-party mechanics for budget-conscious consumers to seek out.
- ghaff 12y ago
  I admit that I don't drive BMWs or other high-end cars but I must say that this sentence caught my eye: "The maintenance service, done at the same time, includes topping off fluids, cabin filter replacement, key fob batteries, and a tire rotation. All told, we paid $636.90 with tax." I'm probably not the market for (current) Teslas--too cheap when it comes to cars--but that seems like... a lot. My Toyota SUV, which is not a particularly LOW-end car, covered pretty much all service for 2 years. Again, understand I'm not Tesla's current market.

andrewtbham 12y ago

I misinterpreted the title. I read it like: "Consumer Reports: Tesla Model S has more than its share of problems" I didn't see the apostrophe and that changes the meaning from what I initially thought. >Bear in mind that the experiences with our test cars are purely anecdotal and never factor into our reliability ratings. After all, it's a sample size of one.

Apes 12y ago
It's partially due to the incorrect syntax, should be "Consumer Reports's"
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  It's not incorrect syntax; indeed, while the preferred method of showing possessives where the possessing noun ends in an "s" is is a stylistic issue that is subject to much debate, most of the rules that I can find suggested now would find "Consumer Reports'" to be the correct form, not "Consumer Reports's". [1] Eg, this source ( http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/apostro.asp http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/apostro.asp ) reports several rules that are in use for singular and proper nouns (see Rule 1c): 1. Add just an apostrophe after the "s" for any word endign in "s" 2. Add an apostrophe and an "s" to a common noun ending in "s", but just an apostropher to a proper noun ending in "s". 3. Write the word as we speak it. Further, in Rule 2a: regular nouns that form plurals with "-s" or "-es" just get an apostrophe (no extra "s"). Consumer Reports is a proper noun formed from the plural form of a common noun that is pluralized by adding an "s", so all those (except perhaps "write as you speak", and then only if you'd say "Consumer Reportses" for the possessive form) support adding a bare apostrophe rather than apostrophe plus s.
  - nardi 12y ago
    For a better treatment, I turned to The Chicago Manual of Style (sixteenth edition), used by the vast majority of publishers of American English books. It says in Section 7.19 to omit the s "...when the name of a place or an organization or a publication (or the last element in the name) is a plural form ending in s, such as the United States, even though the entity is singular." And cites these as examples: the United States' role in international law Highland Hills' late mayor Callaway Gardens' former curator the National Academy of Sciences' new policy