4 ms·

I don't agree with his reasoning here: >"The data we see shows that, unless you’re given the preparation and access to higher education, and unless you have a

by xiaoma 12y ago

I don't agree with his reasoning here: >"The data we see shows that, unless you’re given the preparation and access to higher education, and unless you have a successful completion of that higher education, your economic opportunity is greatly, greatly reduced. There’s a lot of data recently talking about the premium in salaries for people with four-year college degrees." The problem is that the observation that people with degrees earn more than those without doesn't imply that increasing the number of people with degrees would increase overall prosperity. Degrees are credentials that are used to sort people. Similarly, while an individual student earning a lot of As is likely a meaningful signal of their studiousness and understanding of their subjects, inflating the grades of all students and awarding more As in general doesn't mean the students have become more studious. If nearly everyone had a college degree, its effect on their occupational opportunities would be very similar to that of a high school diploma now. Unless the focus is on the education itself, instead of schooling, the result is just credential inflation—something very expensive and wasteful economically and in terms of peoples lives.

seanflyon 12y ago
> Degrees are credentials that are used to sort people. Degrees are used to sort people, but not arbitrarily. A degree certifies what you have learned. Giving out more degrees could mean degree inflation or it could just mean that more people are learning. Our economy is shifting away from unskilled labor towards skilled labor. You can get those skills without getting a degree, it's just harder (and cheaper) to do. I love institutions like the Khan Academy that make it easier to improve your skills outside of a degree program, but I also love initiatives that make degree programs more accessible.
- lutusp 12y ago
  > Degrees are used to sort people, but not arbitrarily. I disagree -- I think the case can be made that the sorting process is largely automatic and disregards individual traits, This is supported by the number of very high achievers who are also dropouts, people who didn't understand or accept that they had already been "sorted". This certainly isn't meant to suggest that, on average, a degree holder doesn't do better, has a higher income as a result of attending college. But as college costs continue to rise (now increasing faster than any other household expense) the day will come when it no longer makes economic sense. > Our economy is shifting away from unskilled labor towards skilled labor. You can get those skills without getting a degree, it's just harder (and cheaper) to do. It may be harder, but it avoids the trap of being taught things in college that are already out of date in a fast-moving world.
  - seanflyon 12y ago
    As you said, degree holders are more likely to do better. The question is why and there are 2 obvious answers: 1) People who are already more likely to do well tend to go to college. 2) Going to college prepares people to do well. I think both have a significant effect. Certainly in my own experience what I learned in college has benefited me in the workplace and almost none of what I learned (graduated in 2008) is out of date. When I look at my most respected peers, several of them don't have degrees, but those who don't either went to college and joined the work force before graduating or took more than 4 years to develop the skills and experience they needed to compete with college graduates. I'm not sure what kinds of individual traits you are talking about that are ignored by the sorting process or how this claim is supported by the few very high achievers that dropped out of college. I would expect some of the very high achievers to take the harder path of blazing their own trail.
oscargrouch 12y ago
>If nearly everyone had a college degree, its effect on their occupational opportunities would be very similar to that of a high school diploma now. Unless the focus is on the education itself, instead of schooling, the result is just credential inflation—something very expensive and wasteful economically and in terms of peoples lives This. I think the focus must go more to the substantial knowledge gained, than the "credential system".. Universities were created so that the son of the nobleman, could have a blue blood certificate, in the world of the (new top dog) bourgeoise back then.. than good manners and education could distinguish them from the poor ones.. So they can rule the world with their pedigree certificate. This sort of elitism baggage we still have in the educational system must go for good.. and we really need to focus on knowledge itself.. because in this new digital era we are living now.. knowledge is more valuable than ever before

by xiaoma 12y ago

seanflyon 12y ago

> Degrees are credentials that are used to sort people. Degrees are used to sort people, but not arbitrarily. A degree certifies what you have learned. Giving out more degrees could mean degree inflation or it could just mean that more people are learning. Our economy is shifting away from unskilled labor towards skilled labor. You can get those skills without getting a degree, it's just harder (and cheaper) to do. I love institutions like the Khan Academy that make it easier to improve your skills outside of a degree program, but I also love initiatives that make degree programs more accessible.

lutusp 12y ago
> Degrees are used to sort people, but not arbitrarily. I disagree -- I think the case can be made that the sorting process is largely automatic and disregards individual traits, This is supported by the number of very high achievers who are also dropouts, people who didn't understand or accept that they had already been "sorted". This certainly isn't meant to suggest that, on average, a degree holder doesn't do better, has a higher income as a result of attending college. But as college costs continue to rise (now increasing faster than any other household expense) the day will come when it no longer makes economic sense. > Our economy is shifting away from unskilled labor towards skilled labor. You can get those skills without getting a degree, it's just harder (and cheaper) to do. It may be harder, but it avoids the trap of being taught things in college that are already out of date in a fast-moving world.
- seanflyon 12y ago
  As you said, degree holders are more likely to do better. The question is why and there are 2 obvious answers: 1) People who are already more likely to do well tend to go to college. 2) Going to college prepares people to do well. I think both have a significant effect. Certainly in my own experience what I learned in college has benefited me in the workplace and almost none of what I learned (graduated in 2008) is out of date. When I look at my most respected peers, several of them don't have degrees, but those who don't either went to college and joined the work force before graduating or took more than 4 years to develop the skills and experience they needed to compete with college graduates. I'm not sure what kinds of individual traits you are talking about that are ignored by the sorting process or how this claim is supported by the few very high achievers that dropped out of college. I would expect some of the very high achievers to take the harder path of blazing their own trail.

oscargrouch 12y ago

>If nearly everyone had a college degree, its effect on their occupational opportunities would be very similar to that of a high school diploma now. Unless the focus is on the education itself, instead of schooling, the result is just credential inflation—something very expensive and wasteful economically and in terms of peoples lives This. I think the focus must go more to the substantial knowledge gained, than the "credential system".. Universities were created so that the son of the nobleman, could have a blue blood certificate, in the world of the (new top dog) bourgeoise back then.. than good manners and education could distinguish them from the poor ones.. So they can rule the world with their pedigree certificate. This sort of elitism baggage we still have in the educational system must go for good.. and we really need to focus on knowledge itself.. because in this new digital era we are living now.. knowledge is more valuable than ever before