3 ms·

In which world, universe, philosophy, call-it-however-you-want, is "romantic behaviour" more sexist than holding a "FEMALE Founders Conference"?

intortus 12y ago
Good question. Who's looking after the interests of male founders?
- sebkomianos 12y ago
  It's not about the interests of anyone. It's about trying to fight sexism but instead of educating the people you try to create an environment where it can't exist. It's like trying to fight sea pollution by making swimming pools. You can enjoy your time in a pool but the pollution in the sea is still there.
  - intortus 12y ago
    Your analogy makes no sense. If you've read any of the previous Y Combinator statements on sexism against founders, you'd know that position being taken here is one of removing inefficiencies in the system. All the women being literally chased out by male investors who are seriously abusing their power just to get their rocks off is considered to be a huge opportunity cost. A female founder conference is a workaround, and it makes you sound really out of touch to complain about it.
    - sebkomianos 12y ago
      Okay, so let's be honest and direct and talk about the system and its inefficiencies. Because so far all this "no sexism" has everyone believe that it is about people, not "the system". Which is why I am saying, if you care about the people - which we happen to describe with the term "females" in this case - you should strive to include them, not to create conferences, events and groups that "protect" them by isolating them. If you wanted to do ballet tomorrow, would you prefer a "boys-only" class or a "regular" one? By the way, thanks for the time and the effort you invest in actually discussing with me instead of just downvoting my comment - I appreciate it a lot as it is the only way for me to have a chance to understand where I am wrong and where I am right. :)
      - intortus 12y ago
        For the ballet analogy to fit, you'd have to imagine that men who attended coed classes were frequently subject to a lot of negative attention, ranging from "oh my god a male" all the way up to blatant sexual abuse. You would have to imagine men generally avoiding ballet because of this. In such a situation, I think providing some path for men to participate at all, and thus gradually shift the balance to the point where it no longer is a big deal, would trump the more abstract general concern of "let's not ever make anything about sex." I understand that ideal, but we're not there yet. We're in a remedial situation, where VC (and much of society, to be honest) is as of yet too immature to allow that to work.
bdcravens 12y ago
We're not talking pure sexism here, we're talking about a possible manipulation and abuse of relationship.
- sebkomianos 12y ago
  Abuse of relationship is abuse of relationship, fullstop. It doesn't need to be "of the sexism kind" to be reprehensible.
  - bdcravens 12y ago
    Exactly. Sexism is tangential here; abuse of power is front and center. It's like comparing cops beating black suspects with NAACP membership.
danielweber 12y ago
Man, does everything have to be a fight?
StandardFuture 12y ago
While I agree with you that an "All-One-Sex Conference" is still sexist, I am still downvoting you for showing a lack of sympathy for the people affected by the topic at hand. You'll get over it.
- sebkomianos 12y ago
  Congratulations.

intortus 12y ago

Good question. Who's looking after the interests of male founders?

sebkomianos 12y ago
It's not about the interests of anyone. It's about trying to fight sexism but instead of educating the people you try to create an environment where it can't exist. It's like trying to fight sea pollution by making swimming pools. You can enjoy your time in a pool but the pollution in the sea is still there.
- intortus 12y ago
  Your analogy makes no sense. If you've read any of the previous Y Combinator statements on sexism against founders, you'd know that position being taken here is one of removing inefficiencies in the system. All the women being literally chased out by male investors who are seriously abusing their power just to get their rocks off is considered to be a huge opportunity cost. A female founder conference is a workaround, and it makes you sound really out of touch to complain about it.
  - sebkomianos 12y ago
    Okay, so let's be honest and direct and talk about the system and its inefficiencies. Because so far all this "no sexism" has everyone believe that it is about people, not "the system". Which is why I am saying, if you care about the people - which we happen to describe with the term "females" in this case - you should strive to include them, not to create conferences, events and groups that "protect" them by isolating them. If you wanted to do ballet tomorrow, would you prefer a "boys-only" class or a "regular" one? By the way, thanks for the time and the effort you invest in actually discussing with me instead of just downvoting my comment - I appreciate it a lot as it is the only way for me to have a chance to understand where I am wrong and where I am right. :)
    - intortus 12y ago
      For the ballet analogy to fit, you'd have to imagine that men who attended coed classes were frequently subject to a lot of negative attention, ranging from "oh my god a male" all the way up to blatant sexual abuse. You would have to imagine men generally avoiding ballet because of this. In such a situation, I think providing some path for men to participate at all, and thus gradually shift the balance to the point where it no longer is a big deal, would trump the more abstract general concern of "let's not ever make anything about sex." I understand that ideal, but we're not there yet. We're in a remedial situation, where VC (and much of society, to be honest) is as of yet too immature to allow that to work.

bdcravens 12y ago

We're not talking pure sexism here, we're talking about a possible manipulation and abuse of relationship.

sebkomianos 12y ago
Abuse of relationship is abuse of relationship, fullstop. It doesn't need to be "of the sexism kind" to be reprehensible.
- bdcravens 12y ago
  Exactly. Sexism is tangential here; abuse of power is front and center. It's like comparing cops beating black suspects with NAACP membership.

danielweber 12y ago

Man, does everything have to be a fight?

StandardFuture 12y ago

While I agree with you that an "All-One-Sex Conference" is still sexist, I am still downvoting you for showing a lack of sympathy for the people affected by the topic at hand. You'll get over it.

sebkomianos 12y ago
Congratulations.