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100.000,00 €/year trading things that do not exist. Why am I even working?

perryh2 12y ago
Don't worry, the auction house no longer exists. :)
readerrrr 12y ago
Items mentioned in the article exist, even though you cannot touch them. Did you mean to use the term intangible or incorporeal? In that case you can sell insurance. :)
- panzi 12y ago
  Yes, but these items are basically only flags in a DB under the power of Blizzard. It's not real in the sense that Blizzard could just enter whatever values they want in this DB and it would be perfectly legal. Conspiracy theory: Maybe the didn't ban bots that much so they could hide their own "bots" (a simple function in their servers that sells goods they just have created out of thin air by a simple insert statement).
  - scrollaway 12y ago
    > Yes, but these items are basically only flags in a DB under the power of Blizzard. So is insurance.
    - eru 12y ago
      Especially in the common case where it doesn't pay out (because no accident happened).
    - baddox 12y ago
      And so is most money.
      - panzi 12y ago
        There it's two records in two banks (in the general case) for each transaction. The sum must check out to be zero. And beside that there are laws that are enforced because it is not legal to create money out of thin air. Ok, it is done anyway (when the government prints more money and thus increases inflation) and to a degree banks are allowed to do that in some sense as well (they loan can a certain percentage more money than they actually have). The whole system isn't perfect (hence the economic crisis), but there are enforced laws that aren't written by companies (well, mostly).
    - felipeerias 12y ago
      The point of insurance is not placing a value in a database, that is just the way it is recorded.
  - Havvy 12y ago
    But then that money would show up as an accounting error unless they're cooking their books.
  - Cthulhu_ 12y ago
    > Maybe the didn't ban bots that much so they could hide their own "bots" They don't need to; they own the market, they get 15% + a flat fee for every sale. The items listed for 250 in the article? Blizzard earned 38.50 from sales like those, which is probably more than they earn per game sold via their own webshop. And the bans were wholly ineffective too, and they knew it - the botters would simply buy more game licenses from their profits and continue printing money, recuperating their loss with just one item found/sold.
- BlackDeath3 12y ago
  Agreed. I always find it odd when digital items are referred to as "non-existent", as though their intangibility makes them any less real or valuable.
  - lloeki 12y ago
    Although I can only perceive them through specialised devices, pack of electrons trapped in a cell or magnetic wave patterns on a platter sound perfectly physical to me.
    - BlackDeath3 12y ago
      I'd imagine just about anything that exists in any capacity can be tied to the physical in some way. I think that in this context, "tangible" means more than that.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
jlarocco 12y ago
I'm not saying I agree with how he made money, but if he made 100000 €/year writing software would you still claim he was trading something that doesn't exist?
- panzi 12y ago
  It's about providing value to other people. If you write a software that is really used for something you provided a service. If that service is worth 100,000€/year then so be it. But he just gained money from the misjudgement of other people, not providing any service to anyone else. (Just like high frequency traders.)
  - gambiting 12y ago
    You could argue that he was funnelling money from richer economies(West of EU, US) to poorer economy(Bulgaria) - because he was making many many times the national average wage, everyone around him,every shop that he visited or purchased from benefited from his endeavour. What he did did not bring worthwhile services to other people,but the money he earned did.
    - panzi 12y ago
      I think this is a bogus argument. Maybe it somewhat works for this particular case, I does not work in general for such activities. Also what's he gonna do with the money? Probably buy something on Amazon or Steam or go on vacation to the Caribbean or something like that.
teej 12y ago
Candy Crush generated $100k every ~35 minutes for the entire year of 2013.
- GotAnyMegadeth 12y ago
  That would mean they made $1.5bn from that game alone [0]. Perhaps you meant $10k which would be closer to their today average [1]? [0] https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%24100000*(24*(60%2F35))*365 https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%24100000*(24*(60%2F35))*3... [1] http://thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/2/candy-crush-saga/ http://thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/2/candy-crush-saga/
waterlesscloud 12y ago
Why do you imagine doing that wasn't work?
luikore 12y ago
Money in bank is just a record in database, and they earn much more by trading money that do not exist.

Don't worry, the auction house no longer exists. :)

Items mentioned in the article exist, even though you cannot touch them. Did you mean to use the term intangible or incorporeal? In that case you can sell insurance. :)

panzi 12y ago
Yes, but these items are basically only flags in a DB under the power of Blizzard. It's not real in the sense that Blizzard could just enter whatever values they want in this DB and it would be perfectly legal. Conspiracy theory: Maybe the didn't ban bots that much so they could hide their own "bots" (a simple function in their servers that sells goods they just have created out of thin air by a simple insert statement).
- scrollaway 12y ago
  > Yes, but these items are basically only flags in a DB under the power of Blizzard. So is insurance.
  - eru 12y ago
    Especially in the common case where it doesn't pay out (because no accident happened).
  - baddox 12y ago
    And so is most money.
    - panzi 12y ago
      There it's two records in two banks (in the general case) for each transaction. The sum must check out to be zero. And beside that there are laws that are enforced because it is not legal to create money out of thin air. Ok, it is done anyway (when the government prints more money and thus increases inflation) and to a degree banks are allowed to do that in some sense as well (they loan can a certain percentage more money than they actually have). The whole system isn't perfect (hence the economic crisis), but there are enforced laws that aren't written by companies (well, mostly).
  - felipeerias 12y ago
    The point of insurance is not placing a value in a database, that is just the way it is recorded.
- Havvy 12y ago
  But then that money would show up as an accounting error unless they're cooking their books.
- Cthulhu_ 12y ago
  > Maybe the didn't ban bots that much so they could hide their own "bots" They don't need to; they own the market, they get 15% + a flat fee for every sale. The items listed for 250 in the article? Blizzard earned 38.50 from sales like those, which is probably more than they earn per game sold via their own webshop. And the bans were wholly ineffective too, and they knew it - the botters would simply buy more game licenses from their profits and continue printing money, recuperating their loss with just one item found/sold.
BlackDeath3 12y ago
Agreed. I always find it odd when digital items are referred to as "non-existent", as though their intangibility makes them any less real or valuable.
- lloeki 12y ago
  Although I can only perceive them through specialised devices, pack of electrons trapped in a cell or magnetic wave patterns on a platter sound perfectly physical to me.
  - BlackDeath3 12y ago
    I'd imagine just about anything that exists in any capacity can be tied to the physical in some way. I think that in this context, "tangible" means more than that.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

jlarocco 12y ago

I'm not saying I agree with how he made money, but if he made 100000 €/year writing software would you still claim he was trading something that doesn't exist?

panzi 12y ago
It's about providing value to other people. If you write a software that is really used for something you provided a service. If that service is worth 100,000€/year then so be it. But he just gained money from the misjudgement of other people, not providing any service to anyone else. (Just like high frequency traders.)
- gambiting 12y ago
  You could argue that he was funnelling money from richer economies(West of EU, US) to poorer economy(Bulgaria) - because he was making many many times the national average wage, everyone around him,every shop that he visited or purchased from benefited from his endeavour. What he did did not bring worthwhile services to other people,but the money he earned did.
  - panzi 12y ago
    I think this is a bogus argument. Maybe it somewhat works for this particular case, I does not work in general for such activities. Also what's he gonna do with the money? Probably buy something on Amazon or Steam or go on vacation to the Caribbean or something like that.

teej 12y ago

Candy Crush generated $100k every ~35 minutes for the entire year of 2013.

GotAnyMegadeth 12y ago
That would mean they made $1.5bn from that game alone [0]. Perhaps you meant $10k which would be closer to their today average [1]? [0] https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%24100000*(24*(60%2F35))*365 https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%24100000*(24*(60%2F35))*3... [1] http://thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/2/candy-crush-saga/ http://thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/2/candy-crush-saga/

waterlesscloud 12y ago

Why do you imagine doing that wasn't work?

luikore 12y ago

Money in bank is just a record in database, and they earn much more by trading money that do not exist.