4 ms·

Actually, it could have been a little less "I'm proud to say" and "I'm pleased to have the chance"... When you(r country) messed up and it's your duty to apolo

by ekanes 17y ago

Actually, it could have been a little less "I'm proud to say" and "I'm pleased to have the chance"... When you(r country) messed up and it's your duty to apologize, don't be proud and pleased. Simply be sorry.

weavejester 17y ago
That's what I thought. If the government is apologising, then they are essentially saying they are shouldering some of the responsibility for the mistakes of previous governments. If that's the case, they shouldn't be pleased or proud, but regretful and reflective.
jacoblyles 17y ago
Given that neither Gordon Brown nor any members of the current government are culpable in the brutal treatment of Alan Turing a lifetime ago, they are not capable of making a sincere apology for that treatment. The only thing they are capable of is in making a self-congratulatory statement that amounts to "Look how much better we are today than our forefathers!". That is what this is, and that is all they can give us. Anything else would be dishonest.
- jacquesm 17y ago
  They could formally pardon him as well.
  - russss 17y ago
    I'm not sure there is any history of the UK government issuing posthumous pardons.
    - jacquesm 17y ago
      There are actually plenty, such as a lot of people that were executed during World War I for 'cowardice', there are others dealing with people wrongly accused of crimes.
      - russss 17y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon#United_Kingdom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon#United_Kingdom Today the monarch may only grant a pardon on the advice of the Justice Secretary (previously the Home Secretary) or the First Minister of Scotland (or the Defence Secretary in military justice cases), and the policy of the Ministry of Justice and Scottish Executive is only to grant pardons to those who are "morally" innocent of the offence (as opposed to those who may have been wrongly convicted by misapplication of the law)
pyre 17y ago
I think the point is that he's proud to be the one that's leading Britain in the right direction. Maybe he's also pleased that now history books about Alan Turing will have a blurb about the apology with this name attached to it. While the UK shouldn't be proud of the way homosexuals were treated in the past, but I think it's perfectly acceptable to be proud that they are treated (relatively) well now.
Eliezer 17y ago
That grated on me as well. You can be honored to be the one to finally acknowledge the service of Alan Turing. You cannot be pleased to apologize for your government's having killed him.
- jacquesm 17y ago
  I think the words 'having killed him' are a little strong here, I would not go further than to say 'driven him to suicide'. I know the end effect is the same but it is not as though some government official put a bullet through his head. What they were doing was exceedingly cruel and misguided though.

by ekanes 17y ago

weavejester 17y ago

That's what I thought. If the government is apologising, then they are essentially saying they are shouldering some of the responsibility for the mistakes of previous governments. If that's the case, they shouldn't be pleased or proud, but regretful and reflective.

jacoblyles 17y ago

Given that neither Gordon Brown nor any members of the current government are culpable in the brutal treatment of Alan Turing a lifetime ago, they are not capable of making a sincere apology for that treatment. The only thing they are capable of is in making a self-congratulatory statement that amounts to "Look how much better we are today than our forefathers!". That is what this is, and that is all they can give us. Anything else would be dishonest.

jacquesm 17y ago
They could formally pardon him as well.
- russss 17y ago
  I'm not sure there is any history of the UK government issuing posthumous pardons.
  - jacquesm 17y ago
    There are actually plenty, such as a lot of people that were executed during World War I for 'cowardice', there are others dealing with people wrongly accused of crimes.
    - russss 17y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon#United_Kingdom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon#United_Kingdom Today the monarch may only grant a pardon on the advice of the Justice Secretary (previously the Home Secretary) or the First Minister of Scotland (or the Defence Secretary in military justice cases), and the policy of the Ministry of Justice and Scottish Executive is only to grant pardons to those who are "morally" innocent of the offence (as opposed to those who may have been wrongly convicted by misapplication of the law)

pyre 17y ago

I think the point is that he's proud to be the one that's leading Britain in the right direction. Maybe he's also pleased that now history books about Alan Turing will have a blurb about the apology with this name attached to it. While the UK shouldn't be proud of the way homosexuals were treated in the past, but I think it's perfectly acceptable to be proud that they are treated (relatively) well now.

Eliezer 17y ago

That grated on me as well. You can be honored to be the one to finally acknowledge the service of Alan Turing. You cannot be pleased to apologize for your government's having killed him.

jacquesm 17y ago
I think the words 'having killed him' are a little strong here, I would not go further than to say 'driven him to suicide'. I know the end effect is the same but it is not as though some government official put a bullet through his head. What they were doing was exceedingly cruel and misguided though.