3 ms·

I can understand why you think this might be a good idea. But it completely doesn't take the depressed person into account at all. It thinks it can solve suic

by phfez 12y ago

I can understand why you think this might be a good idea. But it completely doesn't take the depressed person into account at all. It thinks it can solve suicide by checking up on the individual? Do you think the individual wants to be checked up on? Maybe the people checking up on the person are the actual problem in that person's life, which could create an even more serious dilemma for that person. If there is anything that would drive me to suicide, it would be more people thinking that they can 'solve the problem' in this manner.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
Cynical. Depression is often the cause of suicide. Its not 'caused' by people trying to socialize. Makes perfect sense to me to monitor my mental state externally, just like I check my blood pressure and weight.
- phfez 12y ago
  Do you think an external program can understand all of the complexities of the human drama within the context of a single person's life?
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    No all, but that's not a reason not to try.
4lgorythm 12y ago
If a "depressed" person is posting things that flag a SUICIDE watch app, then I'd say they are obviously posting those things to draw attention to their issues. Therefore someone noticing would probably be just what they want.
- phfez 12y ago
  Exactly, which would make this app unnecessary.
  - fmdud 12y ago
    Twitter feeds move pretty fast. People might not notice a cry for help until it's too late.
    - phfez 12y ago
      If a person is feeling suicidal because the people in their life are not noticing their pain, I really doubt that knowing an algorithm had to do it will make them feel any better.
  - lewispollard 12y ago
    My friend posted a 'suicide note' on MySpace back in the day. He was a funny guy and everyone thought it was a joke about drinking too much. It wasn't.
smclaughlin 12y ago
That's an interesting perspective. I disagree. I think if someone is tweeting about suicidal intentions then it follows that they are not concerned about the privacy of those intentions.
- phfez 12y ago
  Exactly, which would make this app unnecessary.
- phfez 12y ago
  Many people don't understand the terms and conditions of social networks like twitter and facebook, and privacy with those services is ambiguous and difficult to manage. If a person is feeling suicidal because the people in their life are not noticing their pain, I really doubt that knowing an algorithm had to do it will make them feel any better.
- lewispollard 12y ago
  It'd probably be more successful if it had access to your IM/chat/email logs, where you're more likely to be emotionally revealing to people you're close to. That opens up a whole other can of worms re: privacy, though.
blowski 12y ago
As somebody who was affected by the suicide of a close friend, it would be wonderful if something existed that could help others with suicidal feelings. But there is something sad about the idea that an algorithm would be better at detecting suicidal feelings than your closest friends.
- phfez 12y ago
  You think it would be wonderful because of the way that you felt, not the way your friend felt. And there is no algorithm that can detect suicidal feelings. I can't help but think of Alan Turing in this scenario.
  - blowski 12y ago
    > And there is no algorithm that can detect suicidal feelings. I get what you're saying, but given the miracles that do exist in modern medicine, I'm not prepared to say it's impossible. I suspect better availability of mental healthcare, preferring counselling over drugs, and less stigmatising would all be better 'solutions' than an algorithm, but if an algorithm did exist that could genuinely help then it would be a good thing.
    - mkal_tsr 12y ago
      You did not address the first part of his comment, > You think it would be wonderful because of the way that you felt, not the way your friend felt. Why not?
      - blowski 12y ago
        Not a conversation that I think is particularly relevant to HN, nor possible to have effectively online. But, in short, I genuinely believe that, though my friend's despair at the moment she took her life was very real, she could and would have got through that despair. Her suicide had a huge impact on those around her, especially her parents, and it would have been better both for her and those around her if she had been helped through the despair instead of just ending it.
rkirkendall 12y ago
Hey thanks for the feedback. I understand your point on the topic, but I would like to point out that CheckUp isn't trying to 'solve' suicide in this manner. The philosophy behind the project is that you, at some level, care about the people you are socially connected to, and you may care if they are contemplating something very bad. The goal is to create a service that will prioritize self-threatening posts from people you care about above the usual noise of your social network. Publicly posted cries for help can indicate very serious intent and we just want to make sure they don't go unnoticed.
- phfez 12y ago
  I tried to comment the other day, but apparently I met my quota for replies.... but I wanted to respond to this. You are making assumptions incorrectly. You are determining right from wrong, good from bad, and everything else for someone that you don't know, and you do not know that person's circle of friends or family, so you can't assume that they care as much as you'd like them to care. When you create a program, you should be trying to solve a problem.... I'd like to know what problem it is that you are trying to solve?

by phfez 12y ago

JoeAltmaier 12y ago

Cynical. Depression is often the cause of suicide. Its not 'caused' by people trying to socialize. Makes perfect sense to me to monitor my mental state externally, just like I check my blood pressure and weight.

phfez 12y ago
Do you think an external program can understand all of the complexities of the human drama within the context of a single person's life?
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  No all, but that's not a reason not to try.

4lgorythm 12y ago

If a "depressed" person is posting things that flag a SUICIDE watch app, then I'd say they are obviously posting those things to draw attention to their issues. Therefore someone noticing would probably be just what they want.

phfez 12y ago
Exactly, which would make this app unnecessary.
- fmdud 12y ago
  Twitter feeds move pretty fast. People might not notice a cry for help until it's too late.
  - phfez 12y ago
    If a person is feeling suicidal because the people in their life are not noticing their pain, I really doubt that knowing an algorithm had to do it will make them feel any better.
- lewispollard 12y ago
  My friend posted a 'suicide note' on MySpace back in the day. He was a funny guy and everyone thought it was a joke about drinking too much. It wasn't.

smclaughlin 12y ago

That's an interesting perspective. I disagree. I think if someone is tweeting about suicidal intentions then it follows that they are not concerned about the privacy of those intentions.

phfez 12y ago
Exactly, which would make this app unnecessary.
phfez 12y ago
Many people don't understand the terms and conditions of social networks like twitter and facebook, and privacy with those services is ambiguous and difficult to manage. If a person is feeling suicidal because the people in their life are not noticing their pain, I really doubt that knowing an algorithm had to do it will make them feel any better.
lewispollard 12y ago
It'd probably be more successful if it had access to your IM/chat/email logs, where you're more likely to be emotionally revealing to people you're close to. That opens up a whole other can of worms re: privacy, though.

blowski 12y ago

As somebody who was affected by the suicide of a close friend, it would be wonderful if something existed that could help others with suicidal feelings. But there is something sad about the idea that an algorithm would be better at detecting suicidal feelings than your closest friends.

phfez 12y ago
You think it would be wonderful because of the way that you felt, not the way your friend felt. And there is no algorithm that can detect suicidal feelings. I can't help but think of Alan Turing in this scenario.
- blowski 12y ago
  > And there is no algorithm that can detect suicidal feelings. I get what you're saying, but given the miracles that do exist in modern medicine, I'm not prepared to say it's impossible. I suspect better availability of mental healthcare, preferring counselling over drugs, and less stigmatising would all be better 'solutions' than an algorithm, but if an algorithm did exist that could genuinely help then it would be a good thing.
  - mkal_tsr 12y ago
    You did not address the first part of his comment, > You think it would be wonderful because of the way that you felt, not the way your friend felt. Why not?
    - blowski 12y ago
      Not a conversation that I think is particularly relevant to HN, nor possible to have effectively online. But, in short, I genuinely believe that, though my friend's despair at the moment she took her life was very real, she could and would have got through that despair. Her suicide had a huge impact on those around her, especially her parents, and it would have been better both for her and those around her if she had been helped through the despair instead of just ending it.

rkirkendall 12y ago

Hey thanks for the feedback. I understand your point on the topic, but I would like to point out that CheckUp isn't trying to 'solve' suicide in this manner. The philosophy behind the project is that you, at some level, care about the people you are socially connected to, and you may care if they are contemplating something very bad. The goal is to create a service that will prioritize self-threatening posts from people you care about above the usual noise of your social network. Publicly posted cries for help can indicate very serious intent and we just want to make sure they don't go unnoticed.

phfez 12y ago
I tried to comment the other day, but apparently I met my quota for replies.... but I wanted to respond to this. You are making assumptions incorrectly. You are determining right from wrong, good from bad, and everything else for someone that you don't know, and you do not know that person's circle of friends or family, so you can't assume that they care as much as you'd like them to care. When you create a program, you should be trying to solve a problem.... I'd like to know what problem it is that you are trying to solve?