8 ms·

American citizens are not entitled to work in the EU. If an American wants to plan their long-term life around working in the EU, that is far from a sure thing.

by pekk 12y ago

American citizens are not entitled to work in the EU. If an American wants to plan their long-term life around working in the EU, that is far from a sure thing. Even with a masters and PhD. So why should the US be singled out for this?

blutoot 12y ago
You don't need to be a jerk. He complained about a lottery - that hardly makes him sound feeling entitled about the job. A lottery, to him and to me, sounds like a joke in the grand scheme of things. To put all your formative years into the grinding regime of grad school only to see the next step taken away by a lottery sounds unfair and he has a right to complain about it.
fennecfoxen 12y ago
In the UK they at least aim to give you a decision on your visa in ~3 weeks at least 90% of the time, and there isn't just one window during which you're allowed to apply. https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-general/overview https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-general/overview Germany hopes for 1-3 months: http://www.germany.info/Vertretung/usa/en/05__Legal/02__Directory__Services/01__Visa/__Employment__Visa.html http://www.germany.info/Vertretung/usa/en/05__Legal/02__Dire... (Coincidentally, I'm trying to relocate to the UK -- or an English-language friendly part of the EU, like the Netherlands or maybe Berlin -- so that I can be with a lovely girl. Haven't even gotten to visas yet, but I am really really glad that I'm not trying to go the other way...)
- bojan 12y ago
  Depending on where exactly you are from, the Dutch process will impose an exam on you and an income requirement for your partner, and can take anywhere from 3 to 6 months. Easier process than in the US, but not exactly an easy one.
  - jadc 12y ago
    Not sure about that. If you are in Tech (or IT as they like to call it here), you can probably qualify for the Knowledge Migrant permit ance chances are the process is a lot faster. Took me about 10 days to get a work permit in the Netherlands but I did have an employer willing to sponsor me. Another friend of mine (also in IT) took him about 1 week also.
    - bojan 12y ago
      True. The parent mentioned a girl so that made me forget about the Knowledge migrant path. It is by far a better solution. However, for people that are 30 or over, the salary requirement is on a high side.
lingoberry 12y ago
I don't know if it works like this in all of EU, but if you have a job offer you will get a work permit, no lottery required.
gorkemyurt 12y ago
at least there is no lottery?
disbelief 12y ago
Countries in the EU (and elsewhere) have more sane immigration systems. As a Canadian having immigrated to both Germany and the US, I can say that the US system is at least two orders of magnitude more difficult, costly, needlessly complicated, and in the end a lot of it comes down to luck (most of it bad). Germany has no lottery system, and renewal is very straightforward. I applied for my visa while in Germany as a tourist, I was issued a "temporary visa" while the final decision was made, and after I was accepted, the renewal processes every couple of years was essentially a formality. There is also a straight-forward path to permanent residency after X years working in the country. Contrast that with how things work in the US (which I don't have time to get into in an HN comment), and you'll see why it deserves to be singled out for this.
- refurb 12y ago
  One reason why non-American countries have "easier" immigration systems is often demand related. Your example "H1-B lottery" is precisely demand related.
  - Mandatum 12y ago
    To say non-American countries have easier immigration systems on the basis that it is demand related is in my opinion, absurd. Australia, New Zealand, UK, Canada and many European countries have massive demand. However you'll find most of these countries have opted to sell residency, albeit through business and job investments. Generally skilled workers have to be sought for locally before they get someone over. Using a "lottery" system just sounds crazy. It's still possible to buy citizenship, yet everyone else has to sit on the side-lines and take a number. Sounds like a weird plan created on a whim..
    - refurb 12y ago
      A recent gallup survey says 150M people would move to the US if they could, the UK was a distant second at 45M [1]. As for the lottery, how else could it be done? There is a cap on H1-B visa each year. The USCIS receives more applications than spots the first day you can apply. [1] http://www.gallup.com/poll/153992/150-million-adults-worldwide-migrate.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/153992/150-million-adults-worldwi...
girvo 12y ago
Because the USA's system is incredibly byzantine and Kafkaesque compared to the EU's. I mean, a lottery for christ's sake... In my experience, getting visas for most other comparable countries are fairly straightforward.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
davidw 12y ago
Not job related, but family related: if you're married, here in Italy, you can stay, end of story. Effective immediately. In the US, the process is something like 6 months, although apparently there was/is a backlog, and they were taking something like a year to process applications for spouses. It gives you an idea of how screwed up the system is.
- wyclif 12y ago
  It doesn't take a year for spouses through USCIS. More like a few months.
  - amberruth 12y ago
    I'm an American have been trying to live in the US with my spouse for over a year so I can go back to school. I'm still waiting and unsure if we can even get in. Kafka-esque and nightmare can hardly describe the feeling.
  - Schweigi 12y ago
    K1/IR1/CR1 processing times are still around 6-8 months. A nightmare if a couple just got married or is going to and need to live apart during this time. Additionally the process is not straight forward and a lot of people will need help from a lawyer which makes it expensive.
  - davidw 12y ago
    This NYTimes article says that, in some cases, it does: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/us/program-benefiting-some-immigrants-extends-visa-wait-for-others.html?hp&_r=3 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/us/program-benefiting-some... They don't seem like edge cases, either, they just hit a slow spot in their processing.
  - pinars 12y ago
    (Semi-related) I'm an L-1A spouse. It took my work application 10 months to get processed, when the USCIS' own regulation stated that the it should have been closed in 90 days. You call them, ask them, plead with them. Nothing. "Your application is in the system and is getting processed." Nine months into it, it turned out that they lost my digital picture taken at a USCIS facility. How in this day and age one loses digital pictures is beyond me.
CalRobert 12y ago
I'm an American who works in the EU. Getting my green card was not left to a lottery, and I had my permit in hand after three weeks.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
yxhuvud 12y ago
Entitled? No, you have to demonstrate you can get a job (to get to work in Sweden. Other countries may have other rules). Either by actually getting a job or by showing you have required skills. There are no limits apart from that.

by pekk 12y ago

blutoot 12y ago

You don't need to be a jerk. He complained about a lottery - that hardly makes him sound feeling entitled about the job. A lottery, to him and to me, sounds like a joke in the grand scheme of things. To put all your formative years into the grinding regime of grad school only to see the next step taken away by a lottery sounds unfair and he has a right to complain about it.

fennecfoxen 12y ago

In the UK they at least aim to give you a decision on your visa in ~3 weeks at least 90% of the time, and there isn't just one window during which you're allowed to apply. https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-general/overview https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-general/overview Germany hopes for 1-3 months: http://www.germany.info/Vertretung/usa/en/05__Legal/02__Directory__Services/01__Visa/__Employment__Visa.html http://www.germany.info/Vertretung/usa/en/05__Legal/02__Dire... (Coincidentally, I'm trying to relocate to the UK -- or an English-language friendly part of the EU, like the Netherlands or maybe Berlin -- so that I can be with a lovely girl. Haven't even gotten to visas yet, but I am really really glad that I'm not trying to go the other way...)

bojan 12y ago
Depending on where exactly you are from, the Dutch process will impose an exam on you and an income requirement for your partner, and can take anywhere from 3 to 6 months. Easier process than in the US, but not exactly an easy one.
- jadc 12y ago
  Not sure about that. If you are in Tech (or IT as they like to call it here), you can probably qualify for the Knowledge Migrant permit ance chances are the process is a lot faster. Took me about 10 days to get a work permit in the Netherlands but I did have an employer willing to sponsor me. Another friend of mine (also in IT) took him about 1 week also.
  - bojan 12y ago
    True. The parent mentioned a girl so that made me forget about the Knowledge migrant path. It is by far a better solution. However, for people that are 30 or over, the salary requirement is on a high side.

lingoberry 12y ago

I don't know if it works like this in all of EU, but if you have a job offer you will get a work permit, no lottery required.

gorkemyurt 12y ago

at least there is no lottery?

disbelief 12y ago

Countries in the EU (and elsewhere) have more sane immigration systems. As a Canadian having immigrated to both Germany and the US, I can say that the US system is at least two orders of magnitude more difficult, costly, needlessly complicated, and in the end a lot of it comes down to luck (most of it bad). Germany has no lottery system, and renewal is very straightforward. I applied for my visa while in Germany as a tourist, I was issued a "temporary visa" while the final decision was made, and after I was accepted, the renewal processes every couple of years was essentially a formality. There is also a straight-forward path to permanent residency after X years working in the country. Contrast that with how things work in the US (which I don't have time to get into in an HN comment), and you'll see why it deserves to be singled out for this.

refurb 12y ago
One reason why non-American countries have "easier" immigration systems is often demand related. Your example "H1-B lottery" is precisely demand related.
- Mandatum 12y ago
  To say non-American countries have easier immigration systems on the basis that it is demand related is in my opinion, absurd. Australia, New Zealand, UK, Canada and many European countries have massive demand. However you'll find most of these countries have opted to sell residency, albeit through business and job investments. Generally skilled workers have to be sought for locally before they get someone over. Using a "lottery" system just sounds crazy. It's still possible to buy citizenship, yet everyone else has to sit on the side-lines and take a number. Sounds like a weird plan created on a whim..
  - refurb 12y ago
    A recent gallup survey says 150M people would move to the US if they could, the UK was a distant second at 45M [1]. As for the lottery, how else could it be done? There is a cap on H1-B visa each year. The USCIS receives more applications than spots the first day you can apply. [1] http://www.gallup.com/poll/153992/150-million-adults-worldwide-migrate.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/153992/150-million-adults-worldwi...

girvo 12y ago

Because the USA's system is incredibly byzantine and Kafkaesque compared to the EU's. I mean, a lottery for christ's sake... In my experience, getting visas for most other comparable countries are fairly straightforward.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

davidw 12y ago

Not job related, but family related: if you're married, here in Italy, you can stay, end of story. Effective immediately. In the US, the process is something like 6 months, although apparently there was/is a backlog, and they were taking something like a year to process applications for spouses. It gives you an idea of how screwed up the system is.

wyclif 12y ago
It doesn't take a year for spouses through USCIS. More like a few months.
- amberruth 12y ago
  I'm an American have been trying to live in the US with my spouse for over a year so I can go back to school. I'm still waiting and unsure if we can even get in. Kafka-esque and nightmare can hardly describe the feeling.
- Schweigi 12y ago
  K1/IR1/CR1 processing times are still around 6-8 months. A nightmare if a couple just got married or is going to and need to live apart during this time. Additionally the process is not straight forward and a lot of people will need help from a lawyer which makes it expensive.
- davidw 12y ago
  This NYTimes article says that, in some cases, it does: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/us/program-benefiting-some-immigrants-extends-visa-wait-for-others.html?hp&_r=3 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/us/program-benefiting-some... They don't seem like edge cases, either, they just hit a slow spot in their processing.
- pinars 12y ago
  (Semi-related) I'm an L-1A spouse. It took my work application 10 months to get processed, when the USCIS' own regulation stated that the it should have been closed in 90 days. You call them, ask them, plead with them. Nothing. "Your application is in the system and is getting processed." Nine months into it, it turned out that they lost my digital picture taken at a USCIS facility. How in this day and age one loses digital pictures is beyond me.

CalRobert 12y ago

I'm an American who works in the EU. Getting my green card was not left to a lottery, and I had my permit in hand after three weeks.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

yxhuvud 12y ago

Entitled? No, you have to demonstrate you can get a job (to get to work in Sweden. Other countries may have other rules). Either by actually getting a job or by showing you have required skills. There are no limits apart from that.