7 ms·

Inside Nintendo 64 (1997)

83 points by CrazedGeek 12y ago

RDeckard 12y ago
Even the mirror of the mirror doesn't load for me. Here is a Google-cached copy: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_aGYRQKt5AIJ:n64.icequake.net/mirror/www.white-tower.demon.co.uk/n64/ http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_aGYRQK...
- Sonicmouse 12y ago
  Cached wasn't working for me, here is a snapshot from the wayback machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20140117054854/http://n64.icequake.net/mirror/www.white-tower.demon.co.uk/n64/ https://web.archive.org/web/20140117054854/http://n64.icequa...
eru 12y ago
> Designed for 1024x768 resolution and Netscape Navigator 4 Wow, we come so far in so many ways, but screen resolution is not one of them.
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  Nah, we have come a long way in screen resolution. The pixel count goes up by four when you double the resolution, and graphics hardware doesn't improve that fast. It wasn't too long ago that 320x240 was a pretty normal resolution. At 1080p, we have quintupled the number of pixels more than twice- from 76,800 to 2,073,600
  - fidotron 12y ago
    No, you're just old. 320x240 was normal, on cellphones, a damn long time ago. Desktops (and game consoles) really haven't kept the pace with everything else.
    - ekianjo 12y ago
      You guys who complain that it's taking too long to evolve don't seem to realize you need to build new facilities every time you want to increase the density of pixels. New factories take years to develop and years to get proper ROI as well. There's not much incentive to build super high resolution LCDs, it will cost much more to make, end up with massive reject rates, and nobody will want to buy them at much higher prices anyway. On top of that, I'd add that even if the resolution has not improved THAT much over the past 5 years, we have made massive progress into having better looking pictures out of LCDs and OLEDs - with much better contrast and refresh rates. Ghosting is pretty much a thing of the past, and narrow angles of vision as well (still not perfect but much better than 5-10 years ago).
    - mwfunk 12y ago
      No, you're just really young. Something tells me your "damn long time ago" was like just 10 years ago or something.
  - bluedino 12y ago
    > It wasn't too long ago that 320x240 was a pretty normal resolution. Maybe for games and such, but not for desktop use. The Mac came out in 1984 with a resolution of 512×342, which was 30 years ago. When Windows 3.0/3.1 came out, 640x480-ish was the new standard, and that was the very early 1990's.
    - colanderman 12y ago
      512×342 monochrome is much less computationally expensive than 320x240 8-bit color. There's a factor of 3.5× memory difference there.
- nextos 12y ago
  Indeed, my MBA has a humble 1366x768, which makes me reflect about progress in this area. The lack of more vertical real state is especially frustrating.
  - bunderbunder 12y ago
    My wife has the MBP with Retina Display. It's got lots more pixels than my MBA, but no more real estate. Display widgets can really only get so small while still remaining useful, and increasing pixel count involves some tradeoffs with things like power consumption. I could have had a lot more vertical real estate, but I decided that since I'd be carrying the thing around in my satchel, physical size was also a consideration. At home I can plug it into a monitor that's much, much bigger.
    - tea-flow 12y ago
      Try Eye-Friendly.
  - gioele 12y ago
    > The lack of more vertical real state is especially frustrating. I see the aspect ratio as the main problem with current monitors, especially on laptops. 4:3 was nice, 3:2 is pleasant, 16:10 is wide but tolerably so, 16:9 has too little vertical pace. It is sad that current monitor are all glossy and very wide: optimized for movies instead of text and other "lean forward" applications. BTW, Dell still produces very nice and not too expensive IPS 16:10 monitors.
    - lucian1900 12y ago
      I've found that I quite like very wide screens now, with a little reorganisation. For browsers, I put the web inspector on the side. For editing, I have two editor panes side by side.
      - nextos 12y ago
        That's true, but 1366x768 makes it difficult to achieve this, even when running a tiling WM full screen!
- koyote 12y ago
  I find it also quite interesting that such notices are not found on any websites anymore. I remember my first 'home-page' having a couple of 'download X browser now for best viewing experience' buttons scattered at the bottom of the page. Whether that's an indication that browsers have gotten better (or more adhering to specifications), web developers less lazy or if there are simply more tools these days to make sure that your website will work properly on most common browsers at most resolutions, I do not know.
gcp123 12y ago
Love this.
DINKDINK 12y ago
A video tear down with a knowledgeable electrical engineer: EEVblog #491 - Nintendo 64 Game Console Teardown https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScicrgZwvg4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScicrgZwvg4
- bubblicious 12y ago
  Thank you so much for the link, I had never seen this, it's pretty amazing! :)
- bane 12y ago
  This guy's channel is absolutely full of amazing gems. All kinds of retrocomputers with some pretty great commentary on the design of the hardware.
  - DINKDINK 12y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/user/bkraz333?feature=em-subs_digest https://www.youtube.com/user/bkraz333?feature=em-subs_digest is another very very good channel
- EpicEng 12y ago
  He's my go to bedtime youtube channel. Good stuff.
- tomkinstinch 12y ago
  Dave Jones is great. If anyone has a Nintendo 64 languishing in a dusty closet, we'd love to have an annotated teardown guide added to TakeitApart[1]. 1. https://www.takeitapart.com https://www.takeitapart.com
- ekianjo 12y ago
  I love the part where he describes the heat sink as "meh" - it's true that it's probably the least efficient heat sink ever seen! But they had space (and surface) available in the console, so why not...
lordgilman 12y ago
The N64 development manual and SDK leaked a few years ago. Here's the documentation for the curious: http://level42.ca/projects/ultra64/Documentation/man/ http://level42.ca/projects/ultra64/Documentation/man/
- voltagex_ 12y ago
  I wonder what the legality of using the manuals in homebrew and emulator development is.
  - brigade 12y ago
    In the US, it's almost certainly illegal. (though admittedly very unlikely to be prosecuted) All materials used for RE must have been obtained legitimately, and as far as I'm aware any legit way to obtain this sort of manual for console development involves/involved signing an NDA.
- mdpane 12y ago
  Wow, I loved thumbing through this. Very informative.

83 points by CrazedGeek 12y ago

Even the mirror of the mirror doesn't load for me. Here is a Google-cached copy: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_aGYRQKt5AIJ:n64.icequake.net/mirror/www.white-tower.demon.co.uk/n64/ http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_aGYRQK...

Sonicmouse 12y ago
Cached wasn't working for me, here is a snapshot from the wayback machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20140117054854/http://n64.icequake.net/mirror/www.white-tower.demon.co.uk/n64/ https://web.archive.org/web/20140117054854/http://n64.icequa...

eru 12y ago

> Designed for 1024x768 resolution and Netscape Navigator 4 Wow, we come so far in so many ways, but screen resolution is not one of them.

sliverstorm 12y ago
Nah, we have come a long way in screen resolution. The pixel count goes up by four when you double the resolution, and graphics hardware doesn't improve that fast. It wasn't too long ago that 320x240 was a pretty normal resolution. At 1080p, we have quintupled the number of pixels more than twice- from 76,800 to 2,073,600
- fidotron 12y ago
  No, you're just old. 320x240 was normal, on cellphones, a damn long time ago. Desktops (and game consoles) really haven't kept the pace with everything else.
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    You guys who complain that it's taking too long to evolve don't seem to realize you need to build new facilities every time you want to increase the density of pixels. New factories take years to develop and years to get proper ROI as well. There's not much incentive to build super high resolution LCDs, it will cost much more to make, end up with massive reject rates, and nobody will want to buy them at much higher prices anyway. On top of that, I'd add that even if the resolution has not improved THAT much over the past 5 years, we have made massive progress into having better looking pictures out of LCDs and OLEDs - with much better contrast and refresh rates. Ghosting is pretty much a thing of the past, and narrow angles of vision as well (still not perfect but much better than 5-10 years ago).
  - mwfunk 12y ago
    No, you're just really young. Something tells me your "damn long time ago" was like just 10 years ago or something.
- bluedino 12y ago
  > It wasn't too long ago that 320x240 was a pretty normal resolution. Maybe for games and such, but not for desktop use. The Mac came out in 1984 with a resolution of 512×342, which was 30 years ago. When Windows 3.0/3.1 came out, 640x480-ish was the new standard, and that was the very early 1990's.
  - colanderman 12y ago
    512×342 monochrome is much less computationally expensive than 320x240 8-bit color. There's a factor of 3.5× memory difference there.
nextos 12y ago
Indeed, my MBA has a humble 1366x768, which makes me reflect about progress in this area. The lack of more vertical real state is especially frustrating.
- bunderbunder 12y ago
  My wife has the MBP with Retina Display. It's got lots more pixels than my MBA, but no more real estate. Display widgets can really only get so small while still remaining useful, and increasing pixel count involves some tradeoffs with things like power consumption. I could have had a lot more vertical real estate, but I decided that since I'd be carrying the thing around in my satchel, physical size was also a consideration. At home I can plug it into a monitor that's much, much bigger.
  - tea-flow 12y ago
    Try Eye-Friendly.
- gioele 12y ago
  > The lack of more vertical real state is especially frustrating. I see the aspect ratio as the main problem with current monitors, especially on laptops. 4:3 was nice, 3:2 is pleasant, 16:10 is wide but tolerably so, 16:9 has too little vertical pace. It is sad that current monitor are all glossy and very wide: optimized for movies instead of text and other "lean forward" applications. BTW, Dell still produces very nice and not too expensive IPS 16:10 monitors.
  - lucian1900 12y ago
    I've found that I quite like very wide screens now, with a little reorganisation. For browsers, I put the web inspector on the side. For editing, I have two editor panes side by side.
    - nextos 12y ago
      That's true, but 1366x768 makes it difficult to achieve this, even when running a tiling WM full screen!
koyote 12y ago
I find it also quite interesting that such notices are not found on any websites anymore. I remember my first 'home-page' having a couple of 'download X browser now for best viewing experience' buttons scattered at the bottom of the page. Whether that's an indication that browsers have gotten better (or more adhering to specifications), web developers less lazy or if there are simply more tools these days to make sure that your website will work properly on most common browsers at most resolutions, I do not know.

gcp123 12y ago

Love this.

DINKDINK 12y ago

A video tear down with a knowledgeable electrical engineer: EEVblog #491 - Nintendo 64 Game Console Teardown https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScicrgZwvg4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScicrgZwvg4

bubblicious 12y ago
Thank you so much for the link, I had never seen this, it's pretty amazing! :)
bane 12y ago
This guy's channel is absolutely full of amazing gems. All kinds of retrocomputers with some pretty great commentary on the design of the hardware.
- DINKDINK 12y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/user/bkraz333?feature=em-subs_digest https://www.youtube.com/user/bkraz333?feature=em-subs_digest is another very very good channel
EpicEng 12y ago
He's my go to bedtime youtube channel. Good stuff.
tomkinstinch 12y ago
Dave Jones is great. If anyone has a Nintendo 64 languishing in a dusty closet, we'd love to have an annotated teardown guide added to TakeitApart[1]. 1. https://www.takeitapart.com https://www.takeitapart.com
ekianjo 12y ago
I love the part where he describes the heat sink as "meh" - it's true that it's probably the least efficient heat sink ever seen! But they had space (and surface) available in the console, so why not...

lordgilman 12y ago

The N64 development manual and SDK leaked a few years ago. Here's the documentation for the curious: http://level42.ca/projects/ultra64/Documentation/man/ http://level42.ca/projects/ultra64/Documentation/man/

voltagex_ 12y ago
I wonder what the legality of using the manuals in homebrew and emulator development is.
- brigade 12y ago
  In the US, it's almost certainly illegal. (though admittedly very unlikely to be prosecuted) All materials used for RE must have been obtained legitimately, and as far as I'm aware any legit way to obtain this sort of manual for console development involves/involved signing an NDA.
mdpane 12y ago
Wow, I loved thumbing through this. Very informative.