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GUN Linux: On the range with TrackingPoint’s new AR-15s

28 points by waffle_ss 12y ago

dTal 12y ago
I get that they couldn't resist the pun, but there's precious little about Linux and nothing at all about GNU.
- mikeash 12y ago
  If you'll look closely you'll see that they never mention GNU.
  - gamegoblin 12y ago
    OP was pointing out that the title, GUN Linux, is pretty clearly a play on GNU Linux, and they don't mention GNU at all (as you say). I think OP was implying the title was clever, but out of place.
- jordigh 12y ago
  Hey, Dtal. Here's the stupid pun you were looking for: http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/gun-linux http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/gun-linux
danso 12y ago
Mmmm...I don't read Ars constantly, so maybe the product discussed has been written about much before and it's assumed in the OP that everyone knows what a Linux-powered-rifle is...but I didn't...I kept waiting for a full description of what a Linux OS meant for firearms and never really got one. OK, it has something to do with the scopes and targeting...and? Is this the first Linux-powered scope? What other software has traditionally been used? Is there a command-line interface? (half joking on that last question) I did skim through the previous article on the gun: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/bullseye-from-1000-yards-shooting-the-17000-linux-powered-rifle/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/bullseye-from-1000-ya... My instinctive question was...if the software is for the scope, then why does TrackingPoint have to be involved in the manufacturing of the carbine? To a layperson, it would seem that a sophisticated scope could be recalibrated to any version of the AR-15...but in reading the 2013 article linked above, TrackingPoint feels that it must control every aspect and characteristic of the shooting experience, including the ammunition (which it sells for $5-7 a cartridge): > The PGF is able to function at range because the system is preprogrammed with the ballistic characteristics of not just the three types of rifles, but also of the ammunition. TrackingPoint has partnered with ammunition manufacturer Barnes Bullets to turn out ammunition with very specific characteristics, effectively selling both the razor and the razor blades. Our original coverage of TrackingPoint from CES drew lots of questions about reloading or hand loading—that is, assembling one's own ammunition from casings and powder and bullets—so I brought this up with Bret Boyd while we were at the range. "Gun people are very passionate, and if you're into reloading and hand loading you're in the one percentile." We talked between shots, wearing identical Peltor electronic ear protectors. "The problem with hand loading is that you just have inconsistent results. Some people do it very good, and some don't. What I really want to avoid is the situation where someone says, 'Look, your gun doesn't work. I'm missing, and it's your fault.' And the real issue is, well, you're missing because you screwed up the ammunition—you have it loaded too hot and it's firing too high. But you're never going to believe me!" He laughed. "I'm really not trying to make a ton of money on ammo, but I want to control the outcome and I want people to have a good experience." To be geekish about this, it seems this gun system is more akin to the Apple ecosystem than to Linux. What are the possibilities of "hacking" this gun/scope ("hacking" in the non-black-hat sense)
- ferongr 12y ago
  A projectile speed sensor is relatively trivial technology and could enhance the system a lot (since barrel wear and gas system condition affect projectile speed) and would make the system compatible with different grain ammunition (though things like hollow point would require special presets due to the different aerodynamic properties of the projectile).
  - gonzo 12y ago
    maybe it just needs the tables from something like JBM Ballistics included. Of course, that probably disrupts the business model. http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi
- doorhammer 12y ago
  I've read a lot of articles about the previous rifles in question and I think the "Linux" part may as well be a stand in for "Computer Assisted/Augmented". I've never gotten the impression that the part about Linux really matters outside of that. There doesn't appear to be any kind of openness as far as the ecosystem or the software goes. I think the gun is interesting outside of that, but definitely a misleading title for people that have certain expectations as far as the ethos of linux/open source goes. Re: the ammunition, I think this approach would be interesting combined with some form of learning algorithm that could adapt to different ammunition (assuming it was different but reasonably consistent ammunition), but, if I recall correctly, this all seemed to be very much "hard coded" into the rifles software, based on the proprietary ammunition. Given the $20k price tag and the possibility of expecting 1000 yard shots, the $5 - $7 a shot seems what I'd expect (match grade .308 ammo can go for $1 - $3 anyway). Still reading through this article; interested to see if the reliance on proprietary ammunition holds on something that's not meant to give 1000 yard shots to relative novices
  - doorhammer 12y ago
    Looks like the AR's still require the same bespoke ammunition, but they're still aiming to accurately hit targets from 500 yards to 750 yards depending on the rifle/round used.

28 points by waffle_ss 12y ago

dTal 12y ago

I get that they couldn't resist the pun, but there's precious little about Linux and nothing at all about GNU.

mikeash 12y ago
If you'll look closely you'll see that they never mention GNU.
- gamegoblin 12y ago
  OP was pointing out that the title, GUN Linux, is pretty clearly a play on GNU Linux, and they don't mention GNU at all (as you say). I think OP was implying the title was clever, but out of place.
jordigh 12y ago
Hey, Dtal. Here's the stupid pun you were looking for: http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/gun-linux http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/gun-linux

danso 12y ago

Mmmm...I don't read Ars constantly, so maybe the product discussed has been written about much before and it's assumed in the OP that everyone knows what a Linux-powered-rifle is...but I didn't...I kept waiting for a full description of what a Linux OS meant for firearms and never really got one. OK, it has something to do with the scopes and targeting...and? Is this the first Linux-powered scope? What other software has traditionally been used? Is there a command-line interface? (half joking on that last question) I did skim through the previous article on the gun: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/bullseye-from-1000-yards-shooting-the-17000-linux-powered-rifle/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/bullseye-from-1000-ya... My instinctive question was...if the software is for the scope, then why does TrackingPoint have to be involved in the manufacturing of the carbine? To a layperson, it would seem that a sophisticated scope could be recalibrated to any version of the AR-15...but in reading the 2013 article linked above, TrackingPoint feels that it must control every aspect and characteristic of the shooting experience, including the ammunition (which it sells for $5-7 a cartridge): > The PGF is able to function at range because the system is preprogrammed with the ballistic characteristics of not just the three types of rifles, but also of the ammunition. TrackingPoint has partnered with ammunition manufacturer Barnes Bullets to turn out ammunition with very specific characteristics, effectively selling both the razor and the razor blades. Our original coverage of TrackingPoint from CES drew lots of questions about reloading or hand loading—that is, assembling one's own ammunition from casings and powder and bullets—so I brought this up with Bret Boyd while we were at the range. "Gun people are very passionate, and if you're into reloading and hand loading you're in the one percentile." We talked between shots, wearing identical Peltor electronic ear protectors. "The problem with hand loading is that you just have inconsistent results. Some people do it very good, and some don't. What I really want to avoid is the situation where someone says, 'Look, your gun doesn't work. I'm missing, and it's your fault.' And the real issue is, well, you're missing because you screwed up the ammunition—you have it loaded too hot and it's firing too high. But you're never going to believe me!" He laughed. "I'm really not trying to make a ton of money on ammo, but I want to control the outcome and I want people to have a good experience." To be geekish about this, it seems this gun system is more akin to the Apple ecosystem than to Linux. What are the possibilities of "hacking" this gun/scope ("hacking" in the non-black-hat sense)

ferongr 12y ago
A projectile speed sensor is relatively trivial technology and could enhance the system a lot (since barrel wear and gas system condition affect projectile speed) and would make the system compatible with different grain ammunition (though things like hollow point would require special presets due to the different aerodynamic properties of the projectile).
- gonzo 12y ago
  maybe it just needs the tables from something like JBM Ballistics included. Of course, that probably disrupts the business model. http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi
doorhammer 12y ago
I've read a lot of articles about the previous rifles in question and I think the "Linux" part may as well be a stand in for "Computer Assisted/Augmented". I've never gotten the impression that the part about Linux really matters outside of that. There doesn't appear to be any kind of openness as far as the ecosystem or the software goes. I think the gun is interesting outside of that, but definitely a misleading title for people that have certain expectations as far as the ethos of linux/open source goes. Re: the ammunition, I think this approach would be interesting combined with some form of learning algorithm that could adapt to different ammunition (assuming it was different but reasonably consistent ammunition), but, if I recall correctly, this all seemed to be very much "hard coded" into the rifles software, based on the proprietary ammunition. Given the $20k price tag and the possibility of expecting 1000 yard shots, the $5 - $7 a shot seems what I'd expect (match grade .308 ammo can go for $1 - $3 anyway). Still reading through this article; interested to see if the reliance on proprietary ammunition holds on something that's not meant to give 1000 yard shots to relative novices
- doorhammer 12y ago
  Looks like the AR's still require the same bespoke ammunition, but they're still aiming to accurately hit targets from 500 yards to 750 yards depending on the rifle/round used.