3 ms·

Dispute Between Amazon and Hachette Takes an Orwellian Turn

5 points by rpm4321 12y ago

BerislavLopac 12y ago
The main problem with all arguments for keeping the prices of books (and other information sources, for that matter) high is that they are bullshit. If we look at the history, the price of books were never depending on their _contents_; instead, it were always determined by their _production_. Hardcover books, on high quality paper and with colour illustrations, always were priced higher than low-quality prints with b/w images (or without any) -- and the price was never significantly affected by the popularity, a paperback copy of "Harry Potter" or "50 Shades of Gray" costs essentially the same as a unknown author's book. And the price of books was always affected only by technology improvements -- Guttenberg's press, linotype, print-on-demand etc -- and not by anything the authors wrote about. With digital revolution, the book production costs drop essentially to zero. Also, most of the elements that used to be necessary to bring a book from an author to their readers -- agents, typesetters, printers, bookshops and especially publishers -- are becoming redundant; authors can easily market themselves to a worldwide audience, distributing e-books directly to the readers and even directly accepting payments. The only thing preventing this is the publishers who push against it and try to keep as much of the status quo as possible, as Hachette is doing now. That being said, Amazon is not without their own part of the guilt, as they're trying to become the central place for locating and distributing books, and so far they're succeeding; but that is a whole different issue.
- grey-area 12y ago
  If we look at the history, the price of books were never depending on their _contents_; instead, it were always determined by their _production_. This is what hardback books are designed to make you think, but they are not in fact significantly more expensive to produce - they are a way of encouraging customers who can afford to to pay a lot more for a slightly better product. With digital revolution, the book production costs drop essentially to zero. Printing costs are not the major costs in the product of a book, half the money usually goes to the distributor (shop or Amazon), a small amount to the author, a small amount to the printer, and then the rest to the publisher who pays other staff like editors, proofreaders, designers etc. Amazon is being disingenuous here (aside from misquoting Orwell). They want to become the publisher, and capture more of the money for each book. They offer authors a better deal than most publishers though, which is to be applauded, and thankfully have not reached a monopoly status yet - they are still attempting to abuse their position in the market to bully publishers and authors to accept their terms though, which is pretty ugly. For example currently on KDP, unless you accept that Amazon is the only outlet in the world for your book, you can't sell below 1.99, or you only get 30% royalty, Amazon keeps 70%. You can't give away books for free even for a limited time unless you accept Amazon exclusivity, etc. The incentives are getting stronger and stronger to only distribute via Amazon, which is quite scary for authors. Amazon is not interested in very low priced books, and wants to capture this market completely, so that they have complete power over authors and customers. At that point I very much doubt their incentives will be aligned to keep prices low. That is not a whole different issue, it is at the heart of this battle - authors and publishers see Amazon's obvious ambitions to own them completely and rampant abuse of their existing power, and don't like it. This article is a good summary of the situation, reminding us that no corporation has our interests at heart, and when they say they do, it's usually a smokescreen: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2014/08/09/amazon-gets-increasingly-nervous/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2014/08/09/amazon-gets-increasing...
  - BerislavLopac 12y ago
    I know exactly what are the real production costs; this is why I mentioned presentation and not the costs. As you said yourself: "this is what hardback books are designed to make you think". And this is my point exactly -- the price of books has been determined by the perceived value of their _form_, and had nothing to do with their _content_. I completely agree with you wrt Amazon, but this is not the case of taking one side or the other. We have two big middlemen -- Amazon and publishers, represented by Hachette -- fighting out for their own interest and stating that they are looking for the interests of authors and readers. The truth is that they are both misleading and misrepresenting their case.

5 points by rpm4321 12y ago

The main problem with all arguments for keeping the prices of books (and other information sources, for that matter) high is that they are bullshit. If we look at the history, the price of books were never depending on their _contents_; instead, it were always determined by their _production_. Hardcover books, on high quality paper and with colour illustrations, always were priced higher than low-quality prints with b/w images (or without any) -- and the price was never significantly affected by the popularity, a paperback copy of "Harry Potter" or "50 Shades of Gray" costs essentially the same as a unknown author's book. And the price of books was always affected only by technology improvements -- Guttenberg's press, linotype, print-on-demand etc -- and not by anything the authors wrote about. With digital revolution, the book production costs drop essentially to zero. Also, most of the elements that used to be necessary to bring a book from an author to their readers -- agents, typesetters, printers, bookshops and especially publishers -- are becoming redundant; authors can easily market themselves to a worldwide audience, distributing e-books directly to the readers and even directly accepting payments. The only thing preventing this is the publishers who push against it and try to keep as much of the status quo as possible, as Hachette is doing now. That being said, Amazon is not without their own part of the guilt, as they're trying to become the central place for locating and distributing books, and so far they're succeeding; but that is a whole different issue.

grey-area 12y ago
If we look at the history, the price of books were never depending on their _contents_; instead, it were always determined by their _production_. This is what hardback books are designed to make you think, but they are not in fact significantly more expensive to produce - they are a way of encouraging customers who can afford to to pay a lot more for a slightly better product. With digital revolution, the book production costs drop essentially to zero. Printing costs are not the major costs in the product of a book, half the money usually goes to the distributor (shop or Amazon), a small amount to the author, a small amount to the printer, and then the rest to the publisher who pays other staff like editors, proofreaders, designers etc. Amazon is being disingenuous here (aside from misquoting Orwell). They want to become the publisher, and capture more of the money for each book. They offer authors a better deal than most publishers though, which is to be applauded, and thankfully have not reached a monopoly status yet - they are still attempting to abuse their position in the market to bully publishers and authors to accept their terms though, which is pretty ugly. For example currently on KDP, unless you accept that Amazon is the only outlet in the world for your book, you can't sell below 1.99, or you only get 30% royalty, Amazon keeps 70%. You can't give away books for free even for a limited time unless you accept Amazon exclusivity, etc. The incentives are getting stronger and stronger to only distribute via Amazon, which is quite scary for authors. Amazon is not interested in very low priced books, and wants to capture this market completely, so that they have complete power over authors and customers. At that point I very much doubt their incentives will be aligned to keep prices low. That is not a whole different issue, it is at the heart of this battle - authors and publishers see Amazon's obvious ambitions to own them completely and rampant abuse of their existing power, and don't like it. This article is a good summary of the situation, reminding us that no corporation has our interests at heart, and when they say they do, it's usually a smokescreen: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2014/08/09/amazon-gets-increasingly-nervous/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2014/08/09/amazon-gets-increasing...
- BerislavLopac 12y ago
  I know exactly what are the real production costs; this is why I mentioned presentation and not the costs. As you said yourself: "this is what hardback books are designed to make you think". And this is my point exactly -- the price of books has been determined by the perceived value of their _form_, and had nothing to do with their _content_. I completely agree with you wrt Amazon, but this is not the case of taking one side or the other. We have two big middlemen -- Amazon and publishers, represented by Hachette -- fighting out for their own interest and stating that they are looking for the interests of authors and readers. The truth is that they are both misleading and misrepresenting their case.