4 ms·

The collar sends its location every 3 hours = 7 times per day = 2555 times over a year, for a couple of seconds each time. If on average each wake up lasts 5 se

The collar sends its location every 3 hours = 7 times per day = 2555 times over a year, for a couple of seconds each time. If on average each wake up lasts 5 seconds, that's only 3.5 hours over the year, so definitely within the range of commercial batteries.

cloudwalking 12y ago
5 seconds is fast to acquire a GPS fix...
- Malstrond 12y ago
  A SiRFstar with satellite prediction (SiRFInstantFixII) might be able to manage it.
- z92 12y ago
  5 seconds is too fast to acquire even a GSM fix to send the data.
- miahi 12y ago
  With a cold start - yes. But most GPS chips have memory backup for short-term almanac data (valid for up to 4 hours, works if the GPS doesn't move long distances in that time period) and internal clocks, so it can perform a warm start. This takes only a few micro Amps standby current, so it's not hard on the battery.
mschuster91 12y ago
Even with A-GPS, a GPS fix takes longer to obtain, and data transfer with GPRS takes ages... add the space constraint of a collar, and it becomes really complex.
- mig39 12y ago
  Does SMS use GPRS? The article says it sent its position by SMS.
  - ripperdoc 12y ago
    SMS doesn't use GPRS, it's sent on a special channel
  - masklinn 12y ago
    SMS uses the control channel of GSM.
  - mschuster91 12y ago
    AGPS requires GPRS data.
- michaelt 12y ago
  OK, so assume the GPS receiver takes 60 milliwatts [1] for 60 seconds, four times a day. You'd be using 0.66 milliwatt-hours per day. (Other receivers claim to use as little as 8 milliwatts [2]) A D cell alkaline battery, depending on the manufacturer, can have 20,000 milliwatt-hours or more [3]. Two of those and you could have 4 years of battery life. Assuming your batteries retain their advertised capacity when dragged around in snow and ice by a wolf for a few years! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SiRFstarIII https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SiRFstarIII [2] http://www.csr.com/products/25/sirfstariv-gsd4t http://www.csr.com/products/25/sirfstariv-gsd4t [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_battery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_battery
  - chiph 12y ago
    Temperature certainly has an effect on batteries¹. But also that the periods of high current demand were spaced so far apart -- the batteries had time to recover. Much like how the battery in your car is a "starting" battery -- high current is needed only occasionally to start the engine, with the alternator making up the demand the rest of the time. ¹ Dad used to work for Union Carbide, which owned the "Eveready" brand at the time. One of the projects he worked on was a battery for the Union Pacific Railroad. It was designed to be buried in the ground in remote locations to run signal systems. Burying it gave it a more constant temperature. If the researchers placed the battery on the inside of the collar next to the wolf's fur, that could really extend it's life.
  - michaelt 12y ago
    Ah, spotted an error there. If you were using 0.66 milliwatt-hours per day and had two 20,000 milliwatt-hour batteries, it would of course last for 60,606 days. Which is 160 years not 4 years. Of course, you'd also need to power the radio module to send the SMS, and presumably wolves spend time in remote regions with poor cell phone coverage Products like the Quectel M10 can use as much as 2 watts while transmitting [1] (or as little as a fifth of that). To make 40,000 milliwatt-hours of batteries last for 5 years would only give you a budget of 21 milliwatt-hours (75 joules) per day. That would let your run a 2 watt transmitter for about 37 seconds a day - so to make 8 transmissions a day you'd have to power on, join the network, transmit, and power down again in less than 5 seconds. On the other hand, according to [2] it takes between 1.5 and 5.5 joules to send an SMS, allowing us to send several in a budget of 75 joules per day. They don't make much mention of signal strength or the energy cost of connecting to the network, unfortunately. So I guess it all comes down to how long you have to have your radio module turned on in order to get a message off. There are also tracking collars with solar cells [3]. [1] http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/Quectel_M10_datasheet.pdf http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/Quectel_M10_datasheet.pdf [2] http://mobiledevices.kom.aau.dk/research/energy_measurements_on_mobile_phones/results/cellular_communication/sms/ http://mobiledevices.kom.aau.dk/research/energy_measurements... [3] http://www.rvc.ac.uk/SML/People/awilson/Wildlife-tracking-collars.cfm http://www.rvc.ac.uk/SML/People/awilson/Wildlife-tracking-co...
thaumasiotes 12y ago
Every three hours is 8 times / day, so 4.0 hours / year.

cloudwalking 12y ago

5 seconds is fast to acquire a GPS fix...

Malstrond 12y ago
A SiRFstar with satellite prediction (SiRFInstantFixII) might be able to manage it.
z92 12y ago
5 seconds is too fast to acquire even a GSM fix to send the data.
miahi 12y ago
With a cold start - yes. But most GPS chips have memory backup for short-term almanac data (valid for up to 4 hours, works if the GPS doesn't move long distances in that time period) and internal clocks, so it can perform a warm start. This takes only a few micro Amps standby current, so it's not hard on the battery.

mschuster91 12y ago

Even with A-GPS, a GPS fix takes longer to obtain, and data transfer with GPRS takes ages... add the space constraint of a collar, and it becomes really complex.

mig39 12y ago
Does SMS use GPRS? The article says it sent its position by SMS.
- ripperdoc 12y ago
  SMS doesn't use GPRS, it's sent on a special channel
- masklinn 12y ago
  SMS uses the control channel of GSM.
- mschuster91 12y ago
  AGPS requires GPRS data.
michaelt 12y ago
OK, so assume the GPS receiver takes 60 milliwatts [1] for 60 seconds, four times a day. You'd be using 0.66 milliwatt-hours per day. (Other receivers claim to use as little as 8 milliwatts [2]) A D cell alkaline battery, depending on the manufacturer, can have 20,000 milliwatt-hours or more [3]. Two of those and you could have 4 years of battery life. Assuming your batteries retain their advertised capacity when dragged around in snow and ice by a wolf for a few years! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SiRFstarIII https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SiRFstarIII [2] http://www.csr.com/products/25/sirfstariv-gsd4t http://www.csr.com/products/25/sirfstariv-gsd4t [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_battery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_battery
- chiph 12y ago
  Temperature certainly has an effect on batteries¹. But also that the periods of high current demand were spaced so far apart -- the batteries had time to recover. Much like how the battery in your car is a "starting" battery -- high current is needed only occasionally to start the engine, with the alternator making up the demand the rest of the time. ¹ Dad used to work for Union Carbide, which owned the "Eveready" brand at the time. One of the projects he worked on was a battery for the Union Pacific Railroad. It was designed to be buried in the ground in remote locations to run signal systems. Burying it gave it a more constant temperature. If the researchers placed the battery on the inside of the collar next to the wolf's fur, that could really extend it's life.
- michaelt 12y ago
  Ah, spotted an error there. If you were using 0.66 milliwatt-hours per day and had two 20,000 milliwatt-hour batteries, it would of course last for 60,606 days. Which is 160 years not 4 years. Of course, you'd also need to power the radio module to send the SMS, and presumably wolves spend time in remote regions with poor cell phone coverage Products like the Quectel M10 can use as much as 2 watts while transmitting [1] (or as little as a fifth of that). To make 40,000 milliwatt-hours of batteries last for 5 years would only give you a budget of 21 milliwatt-hours (75 joules) per day. That would let your run a 2 watt transmitter for about 37 seconds a day - so to make 8 transmissions a day you'd have to power on, join the network, transmit, and power down again in less than 5 seconds. On the other hand, according to [2] it takes between 1.5 and 5.5 joules to send an SMS, allowing us to send several in a budget of 75 joules per day. They don't make much mention of signal strength or the energy cost of connecting to the network, unfortunately. So I guess it all comes down to how long you have to have your radio module turned on in order to get a message off. There are also tracking collars with solar cells [3]. [1] http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/Quectel_M10_datasheet.pdf http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/Quectel_M10_datasheet.pdf [2] http://mobiledevices.kom.aau.dk/research/energy_measurements_on_mobile_phones/results/cellular_communication/sms/ http://mobiledevices.kom.aau.dk/research/energy_measurements... [3] http://www.rvc.ac.uk/SML/People/awilson/Wildlife-tracking-collars.cfm http://www.rvc.ac.uk/SML/People/awilson/Wildlife-tracking-co...

thaumasiotes 12y ago

Every three hours is 8 times / day, so 4.0 hours / year.