8 ms·

Bus-only shoulders move you past congestion

50 points by mhlakhani 12y ago

timrosenblatt 12y ago
The Minnesota DOT is phenomenally good. Years ago I started a company around road safety products in construction zones (those places are surprisingly dangerous, slow down!). There was a lot of great work and research being put out by MnDOT. Very pleased to see they're continuing with novel ideas.
- agavegoose 12y ago
  Agreed! Another super cool 'innovation' I have only seen signs for in MN - http://www.dot.state.mn.us/zippermerge/ http://www.dot.state.mn.us/zippermerge/ more coverage: http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2014/05/the-zipper-merge-convincing-motorists-isnt-a-snap.html http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2014/05/the-zipper-merge-...
  - lclarkmichalek 12y ago
    Isn't that pretty similar to the "Merge in turn" that the UK Highway Code recommends? > Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.
  - timrosenblatt 12y ago
    Very cool! I remember reading about this before. It seems like a weird concept and makes some people mad, but it's real. If you like reading and have ever spent more than an hour or two thinking about traffic and American car culture, consider reading this http://www.amazon.com/Traffic-Drive-What-Says-About/dp/0307277194 http://www.amazon.com/Traffic-Drive-What-Says-About/dp/03072...
ClassicFarris 12y ago
Combined with being a bike friendly city, (googling "best bike cities usa" brought up the city in the top 10 of every list). It seems like Minneapolis is doing commuting right. I wonder if there are any studies around the "quality" of the different commutes a city can have? Meaning does it matter that people can Drive, Bus or Bike to work in some very good conditions… or it doesn't matter; because most people think any commute sucks? Now about those winters...
- mproud 12y ago
  Hmm, that’s an interesting question. Most of the studies only focus on auto traffic. I know the Twin Cities metro area fares good enough to be outside the top 10 worst (http://www.forbes.com/pictures/lmj45mlei/no-1-san-francisco-ca/ http://www.forbes.com/pictures/lmj45mlei/no-1-san-francisco-... http://time.com/2849442/worst-traffic/ http://time.com/2849442/worst-traffic/ etc.) which I think it’s because of three factors — population size, lack of density, and highways with BRT and HOV lanes. As far as the winters go… it’s kind of a roll of the die. Sometimes we have very mild winters where it barely snows at all. And then other years we get brutal weather like last winter, which forces rare parking restrictions where you can only park on one side of the street. However, when it does snow, Minneapolis, St. Paul, and Mn/DOT are incredibly efficient when it comes to plowing streets and highways.
- at-fates-hands 12y ago
  >>> Now about those winters... I actually live on the outskirts of Minneapolis and all the bike trails are usually plowed clean before most of the streets. The bike paths are used year round and the cities work together to make sure they stay clear, even during snowstorms. I have several co-workers who ride year round and swear they've never had to ride on a trail with a ton of snow. And besides, all you have to do now is strap on your FAT tires and you're good! http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-04P3j7-1VkY/TyjLZ2MPIcI/AAAAAAAAGOQ/oz6J3pUxj7M/s1600/snow_bikes_cs.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-04P3j7-1VkY/TyjLZ2MPIcI/AAAAAAAAGO...
- avn2109 12y ago
  >> "Now about those winters..." Well, some Minnesotans consider the winters a feature, not a bug. They keep the Californians out. I accept my downvotes with dignity.
leeoniya 12y ago
i believe we have something like this in Chicago, also. here we go: http://www.pacebus.com/sub/vision2020/expressway_brt.asp http://www.pacebus.com/sub/vision2020/expressway_brt.asp
gioele 12y ago
What is the difference between bus-only shoulders and the bus/taxi reserved lanes commonly found around Europe?
- rm445 12y ago
  It's for bigger roads that already have a hard shoulder.
- bryanlarsen 12y ago
  Shoulders are primarily a safety mechanism. They're a place which is almost always empty; you can swerve onto them to avoid a collision. This safety mechanism is not required when traffic is congested and moving slowly. Thus Minnesota can allow buses to use the shoulder when traffic is moving slowly without compromising the safety benefits of the shoulder.
  - josh-wrale 12y ago
    I've witnessed more than a few vehicles overheating in slow moving traffic. Many of drivers of these use the shoulder as a way of removing their vehicle from the main corridor. Another primary use for the shoulder is emergency vehicles. Any vehicle on the shoulder, moving or not, is likely to slow emergency responders. Make sure to look before you swerve, as many a highway patrol person has been killed this way.
mproud 12y ago
The Twin Cities had a lot of catching up to do with transit, and only recently have we started to see the fruits of our labors. Both Minneapolis and St. Paul used to have very active streetcar systems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_City_Rapid_Transit_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_City_Rapid_Transit_Compan...) in the first half of the 20th century, all of which were dismantled when they fell victim to politics and hostile tactics by the oil and auto industries. Unlike Chicago, for example, the Twin Cities have no subway or elevated train system — busing has been the only form of public transit for 50 years. (I think that might explain the article.) Only in the last 10 years have we seen light rail, bus rapid transit and commuter trains. (In fact, like him or not, former governor Jesse Ventura played a significant part in getting the Blue Line built, the first light rail transit in the Twin Cities.) As others mentioned, cycling turns out to be a decent alternative for commuting. The area has an excellent park system (which is part of the reason why the Twin Cities ranks at the top of livability indexes) and this has benefited cyclists, as almost all park and waterfronts are interconnected by separated bicycle paths. Buses and light rail are outfitted with bike racks, making it easier getting about. Despite all this, the larger metropolitan area is still one of the least dense in the nation, much of it brought on by significant urban sprawl in the 1990s. A car is still practically a necessity, especially if you live further out than the first-ring suburbs. Still, we’re seeing positive change. We have a huge apartment boom going on, with a scary low vacancy rate. The population of people living in downtown Minneapolis has grown from almost nothing 20 years ago to over 30,000 people today. And with more people living in the city, particularly in projects built next to the light rail, this means more are utilizing public transit — each public transit addition in the last 10 years has been a success, which has fueled future projects (you could argue the North Star commuter rail has underperformed). The Green Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METRO_Green_Line http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METRO_Green_Line), which opened only 6 weeks ago finally connects the downtowns of Minneapolis and St. Paul via light rail. And it looks like the Southwest Corridor is going to happen, too.
- evgen 12y ago
  Please stop perpetuating the bogus "oil/gas/auto companies killed the streetcars" myth. Streetcars/trams/light-rail is always a bad idea unless it is segregated from regular traffic and even in that case it still loses to several alternatives. Every possible justification for this form of public transit died by the middle of the 20th century. The only reason for such systems now is to amuse tourists.

50 points by mhlakhani 12y ago

The Minnesota DOT is phenomenally good. Years ago I started a company around road safety products in construction zones (those places are surprisingly dangerous, slow down!). There was a lot of great work and research being put out by MnDOT. Very pleased to see they're continuing with novel ideas.

agavegoose 12y ago
Agreed! Another super cool 'innovation' I have only seen signs for in MN - http://www.dot.state.mn.us/zippermerge/ http://www.dot.state.mn.us/zippermerge/ more coverage: http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2014/05/the-zipper-merge-convincing-motorists-isnt-a-snap.html http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2014/05/the-zipper-merge-...
- lclarkmichalek 12y ago
  Isn't that pretty similar to the "Merge in turn" that the UK Highway Code recommends? > Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.
- timrosenblatt 12y ago
  Very cool! I remember reading about this before. It seems like a weird concept and makes some people mad, but it's real. If you like reading and have ever spent more than an hour or two thinking about traffic and American car culture, consider reading this http://www.amazon.com/Traffic-Drive-What-Says-About/dp/0307277194 http://www.amazon.com/Traffic-Drive-What-Says-About/dp/03072...

ClassicFarris 12y ago

Combined with being a bike friendly city, (googling "best bike cities usa" brought up the city in the top 10 of every list). It seems like Minneapolis is doing commuting right. I wonder if there are any studies around the "quality" of the different commutes a city can have? Meaning does it matter that people can Drive, Bus or Bike to work in some very good conditions… or it doesn't matter; because most people think any commute sucks? Now about those winters...

mproud 12y ago
Hmm, that’s an interesting question. Most of the studies only focus on auto traffic. I know the Twin Cities metro area fares good enough to be outside the top 10 worst (http://www.forbes.com/pictures/lmj45mlei/no-1-san-francisco-ca/ http://www.forbes.com/pictures/lmj45mlei/no-1-san-francisco-... http://time.com/2849442/worst-traffic/ http://time.com/2849442/worst-traffic/ etc.) which I think it’s because of three factors — population size, lack of density, and highways with BRT and HOV lanes. As far as the winters go… it’s kind of a roll of the die. Sometimes we have very mild winters where it barely snows at all. And then other years we get brutal weather like last winter, which forces rare parking restrictions where you can only park on one side of the street. However, when it does snow, Minneapolis, St. Paul, and Mn/DOT are incredibly efficient when it comes to plowing streets and highways.
at-fates-hands 12y ago
>>> Now about those winters... I actually live on the outskirts of Minneapolis and all the bike trails are usually plowed clean before most of the streets. The bike paths are used year round and the cities work together to make sure they stay clear, even during snowstorms. I have several co-workers who ride year round and swear they've never had to ride on a trail with a ton of snow. And besides, all you have to do now is strap on your FAT tires and you're good! http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-04P3j7-1VkY/TyjLZ2MPIcI/AAAAAAAAGOQ/oz6J3pUxj7M/s1600/snow_bikes_cs.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-04P3j7-1VkY/TyjLZ2MPIcI/AAAAAAAAGO...
avn2109 12y ago
>> "Now about those winters..." Well, some Minnesotans consider the winters a feature, not a bug. They keep the Californians out. I accept my downvotes with dignity.

leeoniya 12y ago

i believe we have something like this in Chicago, also. here we go: http://www.pacebus.com/sub/vision2020/expressway_brt.asp http://www.pacebus.com/sub/vision2020/expressway_brt.asp

gioele 12y ago

What is the difference between bus-only shoulders and the bus/taxi reserved lanes commonly found around Europe?

rm445 12y ago
It's for bigger roads that already have a hard shoulder.
bryanlarsen 12y ago
Shoulders are primarily a safety mechanism. They're a place which is almost always empty; you can swerve onto them to avoid a collision. This safety mechanism is not required when traffic is congested and moving slowly. Thus Minnesota can allow buses to use the shoulder when traffic is moving slowly without compromising the safety benefits of the shoulder.
- josh-wrale 12y ago
  I've witnessed more than a few vehicles overheating in slow moving traffic. Many of drivers of these use the shoulder as a way of removing their vehicle from the main corridor. Another primary use for the shoulder is emergency vehicles. Any vehicle on the shoulder, moving or not, is likely to slow emergency responders. Make sure to look before you swerve, as many a highway patrol person has been killed this way.

mproud 12y ago

The Twin Cities had a lot of catching up to do with transit, and only recently have we started to see the fruits of our labors. Both Minneapolis and St. Paul used to have very active streetcar systems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_City_Rapid_Transit_Company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_City_Rapid_Transit_Compan...) in the first half of the 20th century, all of which were dismantled when they fell victim to politics and hostile tactics by the oil and auto industries. Unlike Chicago, for example, the Twin Cities have no subway or elevated train system — busing has been the only form of public transit for 50 years. (I think that might explain the article.) Only in the last 10 years have we seen light rail, bus rapid transit and commuter trains. (In fact, like him or not, former governor Jesse Ventura played a significant part in getting the Blue Line built, the first light rail transit in the Twin Cities.) As others mentioned, cycling turns out to be a decent alternative for commuting. The area has an excellent park system (which is part of the reason why the Twin Cities ranks at the top of livability indexes) and this has benefited cyclists, as almost all park and waterfronts are interconnected by separated bicycle paths. Buses and light rail are outfitted with bike racks, making it easier getting about. Despite all this, the larger metropolitan area is still one of the least dense in the nation, much of it brought on by significant urban sprawl in the 1990s. A car is still practically a necessity, especially if you live further out than the first-ring suburbs. Still, we’re seeing positive change. We have a huge apartment boom going on, with a scary low vacancy rate. The population of people living in downtown Minneapolis has grown from almost nothing 20 years ago to over 30,000 people today. And with more people living in the city, particularly in projects built next to the light rail, this means more are utilizing public transit — each public transit addition in the last 10 years has been a success, which has fueled future projects (you could argue the North Star commuter rail has underperformed). The Green Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METRO_Green_Line http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METRO_Green_Line), which opened only 6 weeks ago finally connects the downtowns of Minneapolis and St. Paul via light rail. And it looks like the Southwest Corridor is going to happen, too.

evgen 12y ago
Please stop perpetuating the bogus "oil/gas/auto companies killed the streetcars" myth. Streetcars/trams/light-rail is always a bad idea unless it is segregated from regular traffic and even in that case it still loses to several alternatives. Every possible justification for this form of public transit died by the middle of the 20th century. The only reason for such systems now is to amuse tourists.