5 ms·

You're entitled to your own choice. Your decision points about what constitutes a "lower standard of living" are completely your own. I'm not sure the "most peo

by bpyne 17y ago

You're entitled to your own choice. Your decision points about what constitutes a "lower standard of living" are completely your own. I'm not sure the "most people's standards" part is supportable. I'd like to see some research about 20 and 30 somethings, since they are the ones making decisions now about where to settle and form families, and their distribution. What constituted a "higher standard of living" for us was a short commute, walkable area, cultural activities near our house, diversity in every sense of the word, and an area with a sense of community. For raising our daughter, we balanced the quality of public schools with the education received by being around different people from different walks of life. Our goal as parents is to raise not only a reasonably intelligent child, but one who can understand and empathize with people different from her. Btw, despite being < 1 mile from what would be considered the inner city, we have very little crime. I think this is due in part to neighbors all being close. We know when someone is out of town and what work schedules are. We also have a decent contingent of people who work from home. Add to that my own impression, from being raised in a poor working class area, that inner city crime certainly exists but has taken on a boogie-man hype factor.

youngian 17y ago
Right on all counts. I wish everyone had these kinds of priorities and that sensible outlook on life. I wouldn't trade my education at a broke-ass, shoddy, prison-like public city school for any private or suburban school with vaulted ceilings and brand new textbooks and everyone else looking and acting exactly like me. And sure, there is crime in cities, but it's not like us city dwellers live in constant fear, scampering from one blue telephone to the next. My parents have had one break-in in the almost thirty years they've lived in the city. I've never been mugged or otherwise attacked. But I've met so many suburbanites who have ridiculous ideas about city life - all city dwellers carry around guns/knives, getting shot at is a frequent part of city life, etc.
- hachiya 17y ago
  "and everyone else looking and acting exactly like me." Is this ever really the case? It seems thrown out there so much, but I've never observed a case of people all acting the same. Especially in a school.
  - steveklabnik 17y ago
    As someone who went to high school in the suburbs, yes, that was the case. There were essentially two classes of kids at my high scool: the cool kids and the uncool kids. The cool kids were your standard preppy (American Eagle preppy, not actual New England preppy) football player types. The uncool kids wore black and were in band. Fun story: I decided to start wearing my hair in liberty spikes one time. Every class period that day, each teacher started off by asking wtf was wrong with me. I almost got sent to the guidance counselor over it. Oh, and there were no ethnic minorites at my school. When I was a senior in high school, I heard rumor of one black kid just starting the 7th grade, but I never saw him. But no Asians, no Indians (of either kind), no Hispanics. I didn't interact with a non-Christian white person on a regular basis until college.
    - hachiya 17y ago
      > Fun story: I decided to start wearing my hair in liberty > spikes one time. Every class period that day, each teacher > started off by asking wtf was wrong with me. I almost got > sent to the guidance counselor over it. Shock-value styles don't indicate much to most observers, other than that someone is unhappy with the status quo and wants to shake things up in an immature manner. Seriously, what did you expect to accomplish by that? Do you really think your teacher's response was unjustified? I don't see how such behavior demonstrates a real diversity in anything of importance or value. > Oh, and there were no ethnic minorites at my school. So unless the people in your school were BORN different, you are judging them as being the "same", and of diminished worthiness with whom to interact? Seems almost like racism - prejudging people based on the skin into which they were born.
      - bct 17y ago
        The lack of ethnic minorities is an indicator of cultural and behavioral homogeneity, not the definition of it (i.e. the important question is why weren't there any ethnic minorities there?). And yeah, the teacher's response was unjustified (precisely because hairstyle is such a trivial thing).
angstrom 17y ago
I was raised in a rural area and grew up on a dairy farm, but I've lived in a suburb for the past 5 years. There is nothing natural, beautiful, or interesting about the environment to me. Its just an enormous waste of what used to be prime farmland that actually served a purpose. Turning that land into tracts of manicured lawns and parking lots created more problems than it solved. People moved out to the burbs because it was the affluent thing to do and was supposed to guarantee a rewarding lifestyle. It's not for everyone. There are those, myself included, that find neither the relaxing solitude of the country, nor the engaging diversity of the city in the suburbs. It would have been a better use of resources to create a green city environments that would have served everyone.
nathanwdavis 17y ago
Good points. I think if I were single, I would want to live in the city because the disadvantages I referred to just wouldn't matter if it was just me. However, my inner city is apparently not as nice as yours, so for me the desire to live in the city and not have to drive as much is out weighed by my father/husband desires (whatever those are). If I lived in the same city area as you I may have made the decision to be in the city even with my family.
- bpyne 17y ago
  You know your situation better than we could. Your decisions are your own and are right for you. As some of the other responders show, a child can be raised in the suburbs and come out with an open mind. It is just easier for someone raised in the burbs to not come in contact with non-white racial groups, poor communities, openly gay couples, etc... Just some food for thought... When many people think of cities they think of New York, Chicago, LA, etc. There are smaller, second tier cities that offer good proximity to an urban center and cultural life while still giving good public education and safety. A city fitting this description that I'm really high on right now is Portland, Me. When I was single I lived in Boston for a bit and didn't own a car. It was one of the happiest periods of my life. A monthly pass for unlimited bus and train was about $45. The low price allowed me to live in the city, sharing an apartment of course, on a $26K salary. One of the benefits of relying on public transit is being able to read. Nowadays I'd probably code but laptops were large and expensive then. (There is nothing more wasteful of your time/life than sitting in a traffic jam IMO.) I worked out in a section of the city called Forest Hills. On Fridays, after workouts ended around 10p, I'd take the Orange line down to Chinatown to eat. I'd regularly walk around side streets late night and never had a problem. (You get used to guys asking you if you need anything. A quick "Nah, I'm cool" and they'd walk away.) I don't know your nearest city so only you can judge the safety, but I looked up the violent crime index for my own and it's on par with Chicago.

by bpyne 17y ago

youngian 17y ago

Right on all counts. I wish everyone had these kinds of priorities and that sensible outlook on life. I wouldn't trade my education at a broke-ass, shoddy, prison-like public city school for any private or suburban school with vaulted ceilings and brand new textbooks and everyone else looking and acting exactly like me. And sure, there is crime in cities, but it's not like us city dwellers live in constant fear, scampering from one blue telephone to the next. My parents have had one break-in in the almost thirty years they've lived in the city. I've never been mugged or otherwise attacked. But I've met so many suburbanites who have ridiculous ideas about city life - all city dwellers carry around guns/knives, getting shot at is a frequent part of city life, etc.

hachiya 17y ago
"and everyone else looking and acting exactly like me." Is this ever really the case? It seems thrown out there so much, but I've never observed a case of people all acting the same. Especially in a school.
- steveklabnik 17y ago
  As someone who went to high school in the suburbs, yes, that was the case. There were essentially two classes of kids at my high scool: the cool kids and the uncool kids. The cool kids were your standard preppy (American Eagle preppy, not actual New England preppy) football player types. The uncool kids wore black and were in band. Fun story: I decided to start wearing my hair in liberty spikes one time. Every class period that day, each teacher started off by asking wtf was wrong with me. I almost got sent to the guidance counselor over it. Oh, and there were no ethnic minorites at my school. When I was a senior in high school, I heard rumor of one black kid just starting the 7th grade, but I never saw him. But no Asians, no Indians (of either kind), no Hispanics. I didn't interact with a non-Christian white person on a regular basis until college.
  - hachiya 17y ago
    > Fun story: I decided to start wearing my hair in liberty > spikes one time. Every class period that day, each teacher > started off by asking wtf was wrong with me. I almost got > sent to the guidance counselor over it. Shock-value styles don't indicate much to most observers, other than that someone is unhappy with the status quo and wants to shake things up in an immature manner. Seriously, what did you expect to accomplish by that? Do you really think your teacher's response was unjustified? I don't see how such behavior demonstrates a real diversity in anything of importance or value. > Oh, and there were no ethnic minorites at my school. So unless the people in your school were BORN different, you are judging them as being the "same", and of diminished worthiness with whom to interact? Seems almost like racism - prejudging people based on the skin into which they were born.
    - bct 17y ago
      The lack of ethnic minorities is an indicator of cultural and behavioral homogeneity, not the definition of it (i.e. the important question is why weren't there any ethnic minorities there?). And yeah, the teacher's response was unjustified (precisely because hairstyle is such a trivial thing).

angstrom 17y ago

I was raised in a rural area and grew up on a dairy farm, but I've lived in a suburb for the past 5 years. There is nothing natural, beautiful, or interesting about the environment to me. Its just an enormous waste of what used to be prime farmland that actually served a purpose. Turning that land into tracts of manicured lawns and parking lots created more problems than it solved. People moved out to the burbs because it was the affluent thing to do and was supposed to guarantee a rewarding lifestyle. It's not for everyone. There are those, myself included, that find neither the relaxing solitude of the country, nor the engaging diversity of the city in the suburbs. It would have been a better use of resources to create a green city environments that would have served everyone.

nathanwdavis 17y ago

Good points. I think if I were single, I would want to live in the city because the disadvantages I referred to just wouldn't matter if it was just me. However, my inner city is apparently not as nice as yours, so for me the desire to live in the city and not have to drive as much is out weighed by my father/husband desires (whatever those are). If I lived in the same city area as you I may have made the decision to be in the city even with my family.

bpyne 17y ago
You know your situation better than we could. Your decisions are your own and are right for you. As some of the other responders show, a child can be raised in the suburbs and come out with an open mind. It is just easier for someone raised in the burbs to not come in contact with non-white racial groups, poor communities, openly gay couples, etc... Just some food for thought... When many people think of cities they think of New York, Chicago, LA, etc. There are smaller, second tier cities that offer good proximity to an urban center and cultural life while still giving good public education and safety. A city fitting this description that I'm really high on right now is Portland, Me. When I was single I lived in Boston for a bit and didn't own a car. It was one of the happiest periods of my life. A monthly pass for unlimited bus and train was about $45. The low price allowed me to live in the city, sharing an apartment of course, on a $26K salary. One of the benefits of relying on public transit is being able to read. Nowadays I'd probably code but laptops were large and expensive then. (There is nothing more wasteful of your time/life than sitting in a traffic jam IMO.) I worked out in a section of the city called Forest Hills. On Fridays, after workouts ended around 10p, I'd take the Orange line down to Chinatown to eat. I'd regularly walk around side streets late night and never had a problem. (You get used to guys asking you if you need anything. A quick "Nah, I'm cool" and they'd walk away.) I don't know your nearest city so only you can judge the safety, but I looked up the violent crime index for my own and it's on par with Chicago.