4 ms·

This is absurd guys. We have one guy's story, from his perspective. For all we know, the OP sat around and did nothing productive. The founders had a reason to

This is absurd guys. We have one guy's story, from his perspective. For all we know, the OP sat around and did nothing productive. The founders had a reason to terminate him - be it what others would call a "good reason" or otherwise. Perhaps there were issues the OP is completely unaware of? What will happen? Will YC yank funding over this? I hope not -- that would set a dangerous precedent and make me, for one, that much less willing to pursue YC funding. If the founders didn't want the OP before -- they especially aren't going to want him now that all this has occurred and threats about getting YC involved etc. The bottom line -- you can be terminated for any reason, even if it's the color of your shirt on that particular day. Does that make it "right"? Well, that's a perspective thing.

poof131 12y ago
"For all we know, the OP sat around and did nothing productive." Working his network to help get a startup's first few customers at large, brand name companies? I'd hardly call that unproductive. In fact, if they iterate product dev on one of these customers, find that perfect product market fit, and scale; well, I'd say he played a roll in their success. "Perhaps there were issues the OP is completely unaware of?" The issue is the manner in which the OP was terminated. The company could be totally justified letting him go, just not in the manner in which they did it. "you can be terminated for any reason... Does that make it "right"? Well, that's a perspective thing." One, you can't be terminated for any reason. Two, we are seeing the perspective of public opinion and unfortunately it is reflecting negatively on YC since people don't have a more specific target. Everyone has a 'right' to choose who they work for. Three, getting terminated is a little more than just perspective. It is an event which can have significant repercussions for a person: mortgage payments, kid's school costs, etc.
- Alupis 12y ago
  > The company could be totally justified letting him go, just not in the manner in which they did it. How so? They decided he was not a good fit, by his own admission... so they cut him loose. Would you rather they hurt their business by keeping on employees who won't work out? > One, you can't be terminated for any reason. Yes you can. California has At-Will Employment. It means they can hire or fire for any reason, with or without notice, even if it's silly like they don't like where you eat lunch. On the same note, you can quit for any reason, without notice, even if it's silly like you don't like where the owners eat lunch.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > > One, you can't be terminated for any reason. > Yes you can. California has At-Will Employment. It means they can hire or fire for any reason No, it means that the initial burden is on the person alleging illegal firing or not-hiring to establish a prima facie case that the reason was a prohibited reason, rather than the burden being the hiring/firing party to establish that the reason was a permitted reason. It does not mean that hiring/firing for any reason is allowed. In fact, there are lots of prohibited reasons for firing in California. It's just "default allow" when it comes to hiring/firing decisions.
    - Alupis 12y ago
      Terminating because the employee was not working out is not a prohibited reason. Terminating based on say, race or sex, is however. That is very clearly not the case here.
      - dragonwriter 12y ago
        > Terminating because the employee was not working out is not a prohibited reason. Its not even a reason, its just a semantically empty phrase. But in any case, I didn't say there was a prohibited reason here, I said that the claim that "at-will employment" means you can hire or fire "for any reason" is false.
        Alupis 12y ago
        We're arguing over semantics now... you get the point I was making. The big picture is the founders felt the OP wasn't going to work out -- and made a very appropriate decision to cut him loose now instead of later.
        x0x0 12y ago
        Are you being deliberately obtuse? Read the chain. Nobody is arguing the company couldn't let him go. Rather, people are upset the founders didn't make it right for him. Frankly, they are assholes. Decent people would say something like, "Hey, this isn't going to work. We fucked up, and we're sorry. Here's two months of comp (or maybe six weeks) to find a new job, regain leases or find a new apartment, etc. And on the off chance you put this on your resume, we'll serve as a reference."
- guybrushT 12y ago
  poof131 - you are absolutely right on all counts. ...getting terminated is a little more than just perspective. It is an event which can have significant repercussions for a person: mortgage payments... This is the key issue. To be honest, even I am realising the impact this can have, only after it happened to me. Financial: all plans made carefully, thoughtfully and intentionally are suddenly meaningless. Personal: lot of awkward discussions :) friends, relatives, business acquaintances (e.g. I did the mistake of updating my LinkedIn - COO one day, and 14 days later deleted the "employment status". As someone pointed out, this is a first world problem - there are much worse things that can happen. I agree. But still, it really annoys me to explain myself to everyone who asks. Some even wonder, if I was "fired" :)) Work: searching for a job is not fun (at least for me), and having found something I love, commit to it (after much consideration) and then being yanked out of it so soon, felt cruel.

poof131 12y ago

"For all we know, the OP sat around and did nothing productive." Working his network to help get a startup's first few customers at large, brand name companies? I'd hardly call that unproductive. In fact, if they iterate product dev on one of these customers, find that perfect product market fit, and scale; well, I'd say he played a roll in their success. "Perhaps there were issues the OP is completely unaware of?" The issue is the manner in which the OP was terminated. The company could be totally justified letting him go, just not in the manner in which they did it. "you can be terminated for any reason... Does that make it "right"? Well, that's a perspective thing." One, you can't be terminated for any reason. Two, we are seeing the perspective of public opinion and unfortunately it is reflecting negatively on YC since people don't have a more specific target. Everyone has a 'right' to choose who they work for. Three, getting terminated is a little more than just perspective. It is an event which can have significant repercussions for a person: mortgage payments, kid's school costs, etc.

Alupis 12y ago
> The company could be totally justified letting him go, just not in the manner in which they did it. How so? They decided he was not a good fit, by his own admission... so they cut him loose. Would you rather they hurt their business by keeping on employees who won't work out? > One, you can't be terminated for any reason. Yes you can. California has At-Will Employment. It means they can hire or fire for any reason, with or without notice, even if it's silly like they don't like where you eat lunch. On the same note, you can quit for any reason, without notice, even if it's silly like you don't like where the owners eat lunch.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > > One, you can't be terminated for any reason. > Yes you can. California has At-Will Employment. It means they can hire or fire for any reason No, it means that the initial burden is on the person alleging illegal firing or not-hiring to establish a prima facie case that the reason was a prohibited reason, rather than the burden being the hiring/firing party to establish that the reason was a permitted reason. It does not mean that hiring/firing for any reason is allowed. In fact, there are lots of prohibited reasons for firing in California. It's just "default allow" when it comes to hiring/firing decisions.
  - Alupis 12y ago
    Terminating because the employee was not working out is not a prohibited reason. Terminating based on say, race or sex, is however. That is very clearly not the case here.
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      > Terminating because the employee was not working out is not a prohibited reason. Its not even a reason, its just a semantically empty phrase. But in any case, I didn't say there was a prohibited reason here, I said that the claim that "at-will employment" means you can hire or fire "for any reason" is false.
      - Alupis 12y ago
        We're arguing over semantics now... you get the point I was making. The big picture is the founders felt the OP wasn't going to work out -- and made a very appropriate decision to cut him loose now instead of later.
        x0x0 12y ago
        Are you being deliberately obtuse? Read the chain. Nobody is arguing the company couldn't let him go. Rather, people are upset the founders didn't make it right for him. Frankly, they are assholes. Decent people would say something like, "Hey, this isn't going to work. We fucked up, and we're sorry. Here's two months of comp (or maybe six weeks) to find a new job, regain leases or find a new apartment, etc. And on the off chance you put this on your resume, we'll serve as a reference."
guybrushT 12y ago
poof131 - you are absolutely right on all counts. ...getting terminated is a little more than just perspective. It is an event which can have significant repercussions for a person: mortgage payments... This is the key issue. To be honest, even I am realising the impact this can have, only after it happened to me. Financial: all plans made carefully, thoughtfully and intentionally are suddenly meaningless. Personal: lot of awkward discussions :) friends, relatives, business acquaintances (e.g. I did the mistake of updating my LinkedIn - COO one day, and 14 days later deleted the "employment status". As someone pointed out, this is a first world problem - there are much worse things that can happen. I agree. But still, it really annoys me to explain myself to everyone who asks. Some even wonder, if I was "fired" :)) Work: searching for a job is not fun (at least for me), and having found something I love, commit to it (after much consideration) and then being yanked out of it so soon, felt cruel.