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What exactly is the argument you are trying to make? Your initial position of; "This scenario should never be possible." "An autonomous vehicle should never

What exactly is the argument you are trying to make? Your initial position of; "This scenario should never be possible." "An autonomous vehicle should never be traveling fast enough to not be able to stop for any objects that could potentially jump out in front of it." Seems to flatly contradict your following statement that; "Someone will die from an autonomous vehicle eventually, there's no way to prevent that just because of the odds of some fluke happening. If someone trips or purposely jumps in front of an autonomous vehicle then there is nothing that could have been done, don't kill the driver for the pedestrians mistake." Do you really think you have thought through your argument here?

dm2 12y ago
If the vehicle has enough time to detect someone has fallen in the road to be able to swerve and hit a wall (killing the driver), then the vehicle should also have been able to detect that someone was close to the road (or that there was a blindspot near a crosswalk) and it should have been traveling a speed that would allow it to either stop or hit the wall without fatally injuring the passengers. About the vehicle killing someone, every object ever made can and probably has killed someone. Cellphones, pencils, car keys, snow-skis, etc. If someone tries to get hit by an autonomous vehicle I'm sure it would be possible somehow, but the car should not drive off of a cliff if someone jumps in front of the vehicle or throws a mannequin in front of it. Basically, if there is plenty of room on the side of the road for avoiding unexpected objects and there is a clear line of sight in front and around the road, go fast. If there is a very narrow road with a wall on one side and pedestrians on the other or blindspots where pedestrians could potentially be, go slow enough to avoid having to choose who to kill.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  "If the vehicle has enough time to detect someone has fallen in the road to be able to swerve and hit a wall (killing the driver), then the vehicle should also have been able to detect that someone was close to the road (or that there was a blindspot near a crosswalk)" Those are two different problems and an ability to do the former does not necessarily indicate an ability to do the latter.
  - dm2 12y ago
    The car needs to be able to see well and detect pedestrians, they can already do that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXeUu_Y6WOw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXeUu_Y6WOw Note that this was a few years ago, it's undoubtedly better.
    - lotsofmangos 12y ago
      Ok, so in the situation that this code is not perfect, which we know it will not be, what code do we run? You have already agreed that these situations will arise and the question is not about what should be done to stop the situation arising in the first place, which is what your answer concerns itself with. Rather, it is what to actually do in the situation that if it does nothing the car is going to hit a pedestrian at speed and all avoidance strategies it has calculated seem to massively increase the danger to the occupants. Saying that the vehicle should not be in this situation does not answer the question of what to do in this situation, unless you can provide a strategy that makes this actually impossible, which you admitted at the start is not achievable.
      - dm2 12y ago
        "Ok, so in the situation that this code is not perfect, which we know it will not be, what code do we run?" You're going to have to ask someone who works at Google that kind of question. Not all of the rules are hard-coded. Most of what makes Google software smart is their advanced machine learning, prediction, and AI algorithms. "Rather, it is what to actually do in the situation that if it does nothing the car is going to hit a pedestrian at speed and all avoidance strategies it has calculated seem to massively increase the danger to the occupants." Apply brakes, activate horn, swerve, deploy airbags, call 911. If the pedestrian gets hit, then it was obvious that the pedestrian did something very wrong. If it is determined that the vehicle was traveling too fast for that particular stretch of road (because of blindspots or because it's beside of a playground or busy sidewalk) then adjust the algorithm to look for clues that will make it operate at a lower speed in this type of area.
        12y ago

dm2 12y ago

If the vehicle has enough time to detect someone has fallen in the road to be able to swerve and hit a wall (killing the driver), then the vehicle should also have been able to detect that someone was close to the road (or that there was a blindspot near a crosswalk) and it should have been traveling a speed that would allow it to either stop or hit the wall without fatally injuring the passengers. About the vehicle killing someone, every object ever made can and probably has killed someone. Cellphones, pencils, car keys, snow-skis, etc. If someone tries to get hit by an autonomous vehicle I'm sure it would be possible somehow, but the car should not drive off of a cliff if someone jumps in front of the vehicle or throws a mannequin in front of it. Basically, if there is plenty of room on the side of the road for avoiding unexpected objects and there is a clear line of sight in front and around the road, go fast. If there is a very narrow road with a wall on one side and pedestrians on the other or blindspots where pedestrians could potentially be, go slow enough to avoid having to choose who to kill.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
lotsofmangos 12y ago
"If the vehicle has enough time to detect someone has fallen in the road to be able to swerve and hit a wall (killing the driver), then the vehicle should also have been able to detect that someone was close to the road (or that there was a blindspot near a crosswalk)" Those are two different problems and an ability to do the former does not necessarily indicate an ability to do the latter.
- dm2 12y ago
  The car needs to be able to see well and detect pedestrians, they can already do that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXeUu_Y6WOw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXeUu_Y6WOw Note that this was a few years ago, it's undoubtedly better.
  - lotsofmangos 12y ago
    Ok, so in the situation that this code is not perfect, which we know it will not be, what code do we run? You have already agreed that these situations will arise and the question is not about what should be done to stop the situation arising in the first place, which is what your answer concerns itself with. Rather, it is what to actually do in the situation that if it does nothing the car is going to hit a pedestrian at speed and all avoidance strategies it has calculated seem to massively increase the danger to the occupants. Saying that the vehicle should not be in this situation does not answer the question of what to do in this situation, unless you can provide a strategy that makes this actually impossible, which you admitted at the start is not achievable.
    - dm2 12y ago
      "Ok, so in the situation that this code is not perfect, which we know it will not be, what code do we run?" You're going to have to ask someone who works at Google that kind of question. Not all of the rules are hard-coded. Most of what makes Google software smart is their advanced machine learning, prediction, and AI algorithms. "Rather, it is what to actually do in the situation that if it does nothing the car is going to hit a pedestrian at speed and all avoidance strategies it has calculated seem to massively increase the danger to the occupants." Apply brakes, activate horn, swerve, deploy airbags, call 911. If the pedestrian gets hit, then it was obvious that the pedestrian did something very wrong. If it is determined that the vehicle was traveling too fast for that particular stretch of road (because of blindspots or because it's beside of a playground or busy sidewalk) then adjust the algorithm to look for clues that will make it operate at a lower speed in this type of area.
      - 12y ago