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I agree with not defaulting to saving downloads in the "downloads" folder. Many people don't really know how to use their file manager. (For years, my mom would

by troymc 12y ago

I agree with not defaulting to saving downloads in the "downloads" folder. Many people don't really know how to use their file manager. (For years, my mom would open Microsoft Word and organize files there.) Why not default to saving downloads on the Desktop? Where did that file get saved? Oh, there it is!

nanexcool 12y ago
I used to think that too. But then, why have a Downloads folder if you're not going to put Downloads in there? I agree that every once in a while you have to do some cleaning, but that's on the user.
- Laremere 12y ago
  I think you could have shortened your question to "why have a Downloads folder?" Downloads folders are where files go to sit unused. I personally send everything to my desktop so files won't sit out of sight forever, but I think in a browser which is meant to be simple that asking where they want the file is a good choice. Why defer user action to a time where they have to do a large amount of a boring task when you can ask them to do it right there when they're most likely to know what they want to do with it?
_pmf_ 12y ago
> Why not default to saving downloads on the Desktop? Because defaulting to having 35890 icons on the desktop has its own share of problems.
weavie 12y ago
What happened to just asking the user where they want to save it? To download a file I now have to download it, then open Finder, navigate to Downloads and copy the file, navigate to the folder I want to place the download, paste the file. Then navigate back to the folder and delete the file from Downloads .. because Macs don't give you a Cut option.
- Pacabel 12y ago
  You make a very good point. That sensible and effective approach has become yet another victim of the failed quest to "improve the user experience" by throwing away or changing stuff that was working perfectly fine before. The new approach is almost always far worse than whatever minor flaws might have existed with the earlier approach. And allowing the old, working approach to be toggled back on through some preferences dialog, through about:config or through some extension doesn't justify the bad change. If anything, it's actually somewhat offensive, because it now requires users to engage in yet more fixing of things that just shouldn't be broken to begin with. When I start using a fresh installation of Firefox, I have to spend at least a good 10 minutes installing various extensions and reconfiguring it just to get a minimally usable experience out of it. That's not acceptable, and it's not justifiable.
  - DCKing 12y ago
    To me, browsers defaulting to the Downloads folder improved the user experience. You might care much about where exactly your files are going, but I generally don't. Of the two, I think "not caring much" is the default option. If you do care, right-click -> "Save link as...". It's also incredibly arrogant to say that it's not acceptable or justifiable that Firefox does not exactly cater to what your personal opinion on "usability" is.
  - acdha 12y ago
    > When I start using a fresh installation of Firefox, I have to spend at least a good 10 minutes installing various extensions and reconfiguring it just to get a minimally usable experience out of it. That's not acceptable, and it's not justifiable. You're assuming that this is widely applicable — very few people have spent a decade building a highly customized browsing experience and most people don't customize much at all. Ever walk around the office and notice how few people even removed Microsoft's default bookmarks from the toolbar so they spend all day staring at links to a service which they don't use? I would also note that the history of computing is littered with loaded descriptions of things which were reflexively described as a "bad change" and a complete non-issue a year later. Mouse wheels, tabbed browsing, fonts and later CSS, JavaScript, all got the kind of grumbling you made above from a few people. Sometimes it's worth asking whether you really benefit from the old way or are just reacting to something being different.
thomasahle 12y ago
Not understanding the file manager is exactly why not asking for a location is a good idea. You just download it, and when you want to find it later, you just search, and there it is.
ossreality 12y ago
A single comment has never made my more sad and upset and frustrated at the same time.

by troymc 12y ago

nanexcool 12y ago

I used to think that too. But then, why have a Downloads folder if you're not going to put Downloads in there? I agree that every once in a while you have to do some cleaning, but that's on the user.

Laremere 12y ago
I think you could have shortened your question to "why have a Downloads folder?" Downloads folders are where files go to sit unused. I personally send everything to my desktop so files won't sit out of sight forever, but I think in a browser which is meant to be simple that asking where they want the file is a good choice. Why defer user action to a time where they have to do a large amount of a boring task when you can ask them to do it right there when they're most likely to know what they want to do with it?

_pmf_ 12y ago

> Why not default to saving downloads on the Desktop? Because defaulting to having 35890 icons on the desktop has its own share of problems.

weavie 12y ago

What happened to just asking the user where they want to save it? To download a file I now have to download it, then open Finder, navigate to Downloads and copy the file, navigate to the folder I want to place the download, paste the file. Then navigate back to the folder and delete the file from Downloads .. because Macs don't give you a Cut option.

Pacabel 12y ago
You make a very good point. That sensible and effective approach has become yet another victim of the failed quest to "improve the user experience" by throwing away or changing stuff that was working perfectly fine before. The new approach is almost always far worse than whatever minor flaws might have existed with the earlier approach. And allowing the old, working approach to be toggled back on through some preferences dialog, through about:config or through some extension doesn't justify the bad change. If anything, it's actually somewhat offensive, because it now requires users to engage in yet more fixing of things that just shouldn't be broken to begin with. When I start using a fresh installation of Firefox, I have to spend at least a good 10 minutes installing various extensions and reconfiguring it just to get a minimally usable experience out of it. That's not acceptable, and it's not justifiable.
- DCKing 12y ago
  To me, browsers defaulting to the Downloads folder improved the user experience. You might care much about where exactly your files are going, but I generally don't. Of the two, I think "not caring much" is the default option. If you do care, right-click -> "Save link as...". It's also incredibly arrogant to say that it's not acceptable or justifiable that Firefox does not exactly cater to what your personal opinion on "usability" is.
- acdha 12y ago
  > When I start using a fresh installation of Firefox, I have to spend at least a good 10 minutes installing various extensions and reconfiguring it just to get a minimally usable experience out of it. That's not acceptable, and it's not justifiable. You're assuming that this is widely applicable — very few people have spent a decade building a highly customized browsing experience and most people don't customize much at all. Ever walk around the office and notice how few people even removed Microsoft's default bookmarks from the toolbar so they spend all day staring at links to a service which they don't use? I would also note that the history of computing is littered with loaded descriptions of things which were reflexively described as a "bad change" and a complete non-issue a year later. Mouse wheels, tabbed browsing, fonts and later CSS, JavaScript, all got the kind of grumbling you made above from a few people. Sometimes it's worth asking whether you really benefit from the old way or are just reacting to something being different.

thomasahle 12y ago

Not understanding the file manager is exactly why not asking for a location is a good idea. You just download it, and when you want to find it later, you just search, and there it is.

ossreality 12y ago

A single comment has never made my more sad and upset and frustrated at the same time.