5 ms·

Codius: A system for running smart contracts

63 points by pgr1 12y ago

kelvin0 12y ago
Can someone please explain a use case for this 'framework'? The whitepaper explains many things, which are somewhat confusing as to their level of use/abstraction.
- untilHellbanned 12y ago
  Looks very cool but I agree. The whitepaper shouldn't be the main introduction to this site. Many things, such as "What's the connection of Codius with Bitcoin's Blockchain?", need to be succintly described on the landing page above the link to the whitepaper. Need FAQ please!
  - philrapo 12y ago
    Here are some use cases: https://github.com/codius/codius/wiki/A-(Hopefully)-Simple-Overview https://github.com/codius/codius/wiki/A-(Hopefully)-Simple-O... [disclaimer: i'm an employee of ripple labs]
    - jpetersonmn 12y ago
      That's what I just read. I feel really dumb if that's the simple version. The overall idea I get and sounds pretty interesting.
  - emschwartz 12y ago
    Smart contracts run on Codius can interact with any blockchain! To move money in Bitcoin all you need is a valid digital signature. Smart contracts are programs that can check some conditions and then based on those decide to sign a Bitcoin (or Litecoin, Nextcoin, Ripple, etc) transaction or not based on those. For a simpler introduction to smart contracts and Codius check out: http://bit.ly/codiussimple http://bit.ly/codiussimple Keep the questions coming!
    - drdaeman 12y ago
      How? As I get it, for a software to sign something it must be in possession of private key material. Then, anyone who knows the contract could extract the key and do perform the transaction without bothering about conditions. And if only one party knows the contract, it could refuse to sign even though the conditions met. Or everything depends on a trusted third party that would keep and wouldn't disclose the secret part unless the conditions are met? And participants would only see a partial contract - i.e. conditions and actions minus the secret material?
      - kelvin0 12y ago
        After reading the 'simple overview' I have exactly the same questions as you. It's all nice that the contract runs and checks for conditions and such ... however the 'implementation' of the condition checking seem to be the Achilles heal of this whole thing. For example, the use-case of the online buyer, who would check the phone was shipped? Another 'smart-contract' ...?
NicoJuicy 12y ago
It's to develop a systematic way to combine contracts and conditions. Eg. One this is done, then pay in bitcoin, ... Some clear examples can be found here : https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/codius/tOtcG9cZA-Y https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/codius/tOtcG9cZA-Y
- kolinko 12y ago
  Well, there's more to that. Conditions by themselves can be handled by the blockchain, but using external sources (like websites, price feeds, etc) requires something like Codius or Orisi.org. One fun example of an oracle smart contract is Mechanical Turk arbitration... http://orisi.net/discussion/4/mturk-and-distributed-oracles-two-tiered-arbitration http://orisi.net/discussion/4/mturk-and-distributed-oracles-... But basically anything that requires external inputs can be done. If you don't need external inputs, you can probably create the contract within Bitcoin/Ethereum alone.
wwsculley 12y ago
How is this different from Ethereum?
- drcode 12y ago
  In short, codius requires parties to select a group of reputable nodes to run the contract code but in exchange is technically simpler and faster. Ethereum requires zero trust and gives pretty much a 100% guarantee the contract will be executed as written, but is technically more challenging and contracts run slower.
  - emschwartz 12y ago
    Actually Ethereum requires you to trust the mining pools that make up 51% of the hashing power of the network. Codius allows you to select oracles based on whatever criteria you like -- including using mining. The nodes don't necessarily need to be reputable, you just need them not to collude
    - l_m_g 12y ago
      This. The "trustlessness" in Bitcoin & Ethereum are conditional on the lack of collusion between miners. It's particularly jarring to hear people clamor that it's "trustless", confusing the computational security of crypto with the much weaker game-theoretic security of Bitcoin. Marketing I suppose.
      - drcode 12y ago
        As far as we know, blockchain systems are the best way so far to minimize the amount of trust. It's all well and good to talk about how imperfect blockchains are, but until something better comes along it seems like not much can be gained by parsing out different gradiations of "trust" in the way you suggest.
  - kolinko 12y ago
    Codius (and Orisi.org) can deliver external inputs to the contracts - it's something no blockchain system can do by design. In other words - if you want your Ethereum contract to rely on weather, a certain website, or a currency price, you need Orisi, Codius, or some other similar system.
sdegutis 12y ago
Slight off-topic, but I recommend never using the phrase of the pattern "simple {and,but,yet} powerful" in anything, ever. It doesn't convey anything meaningful, and it's very overused.
gmosx 12y ago
Interesting idea. Ripple Labs seems to be churning out a lot of interesting stuff lately.

63 points by pgr1 12y ago

Can someone please explain a use case for this 'framework'? The whitepaper explains many things, which are somewhat confusing as to their level of use/abstraction.

untilHellbanned 12y ago
Looks very cool but I agree. The whitepaper shouldn't be the main introduction to this site. Many things, such as "What's the connection of Codius with Bitcoin's Blockchain?", need to be succintly described on the landing page above the link to the whitepaper. Need FAQ please!
- philrapo 12y ago
  Here are some use cases: https://github.com/codius/codius/wiki/A-(Hopefully)-Simple-Overview https://github.com/codius/codius/wiki/A-(Hopefully)-Simple-O... [disclaimer: i'm an employee of ripple labs]
  - jpetersonmn 12y ago
    That's what I just read. I feel really dumb if that's the simple version. The overall idea I get and sounds pretty interesting.
- emschwartz 12y ago
  Smart contracts run on Codius can interact with any blockchain! To move money in Bitcoin all you need is a valid digital signature. Smart contracts are programs that can check some conditions and then based on those decide to sign a Bitcoin (or Litecoin, Nextcoin, Ripple, etc) transaction or not based on those. For a simpler introduction to smart contracts and Codius check out: http://bit.ly/codiussimple http://bit.ly/codiussimple Keep the questions coming!
  - drdaeman 12y ago
    How? As I get it, for a software to sign something it must be in possession of private key material. Then, anyone who knows the contract could extract the key and do perform the transaction without bothering about conditions. And if only one party knows the contract, it could refuse to sign even though the conditions met. Or everything depends on a trusted third party that would keep and wouldn't disclose the secret part unless the conditions are met? And participants would only see a partial contract - i.e. conditions and actions minus the secret material?
    - kelvin0 12y ago
      After reading the 'simple overview' I have exactly the same questions as you. It's all nice that the contract runs and checks for conditions and such ... however the 'implementation' of the condition checking seem to be the Achilles heal of this whole thing. For example, the use-case of the online buyer, who would check the phone was shipped? Another 'smart-contract' ...?

NicoJuicy 12y ago

It's to develop a systematic way to combine contracts and conditions. Eg. One this is done, then pay in bitcoin, ... Some clear examples can be found here : https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/codius/tOtcG9cZA-Y https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/codius/tOtcG9cZA-Y

kolinko 12y ago
Well, there's more to that. Conditions by themselves can be handled by the blockchain, but using external sources (like websites, price feeds, etc) requires something like Codius or Orisi.org. One fun example of an oracle smart contract is Mechanical Turk arbitration... http://orisi.net/discussion/4/mturk-and-distributed-oracles-two-tiered-arbitration http://orisi.net/discussion/4/mturk-and-distributed-oracles-... But basically anything that requires external inputs can be done. If you don't need external inputs, you can probably create the contract within Bitcoin/Ethereum alone.

wwsculley 12y ago

How is this different from Ethereum?

drcode 12y ago
In short, codius requires parties to select a group of reputable nodes to run the contract code but in exchange is technically simpler and faster. Ethereum requires zero trust and gives pretty much a 100% guarantee the contract will be executed as written, but is technically more challenging and contracts run slower.
- emschwartz 12y ago
  Actually Ethereum requires you to trust the mining pools that make up 51% of the hashing power of the network. Codius allows you to select oracles based on whatever criteria you like -- including using mining. The nodes don't necessarily need to be reputable, you just need them not to collude
  - l_m_g 12y ago
    This. The "trustlessness" in Bitcoin & Ethereum are conditional on the lack of collusion between miners. It's particularly jarring to hear people clamor that it's "trustless", confusing the computational security of crypto with the much weaker game-theoretic security of Bitcoin. Marketing I suppose.
    - drcode 12y ago
      As far as we know, blockchain systems are the best way so far to minimize the amount of trust. It's all well and good to talk about how imperfect blockchains are, but until something better comes along it seems like not much can be gained by parsing out different gradiations of "trust" in the way you suggest.
- kolinko 12y ago
  Codius (and Orisi.org) can deliver external inputs to the contracts - it's something no blockchain system can do by design. In other words - if you want your Ethereum contract to rely on weather, a certain website, or a currency price, you need Orisi, Codius, or some other similar system.

sdegutis 12y ago

Slight off-topic, but I recommend never using the phrase of the pattern "simple {and,but,yet} powerful" in anything, ever. It doesn't convey anything meaningful, and it's very overused.

gmosx 12y ago

Interesting idea. Ripple Labs seems to be churning out a lot of interesting stuff lately.